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Leicester Station remodelling

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TheBigD

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Can the line between Manton Jn and Syston North Jn cope with all the north to south freight avoiding Leicester?
[snip]
Even if HS2B (Eastern) is built I don't think that will provide anymore paths through Leicester for East West Freight due to this single Line section and the Block sections between Manton and Syston North Jns..

Apart from on a Sunday* when Melton box is closed the block sections aren't that big.
Longest block sections are east of Manton Junction towards Peterborough. During the last 9 day block on the MML, 3 MML services each way per hour, plus freight, in addition to the normal passenger and freight service ran without any problems.

* Melton box is opened on the Sundays when there are MML diversions.
 
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edwin_m

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Can the line between Manton Jn and Syston North Jn cope with all the north to south freight avoiding Leicester?

It also looks like Syston South Jn to Syston East Jn remains single.

Even if HS2B (Eastern) is built I don't think that will provide anymore paths through Leicester for East West Freight due to this single Line section and the Block sections between Manton and Syston North Jns..
The block sections could be shortened relatively cheaply if needed. If the single line remains from Leicester to Syston South then not doubling from there to Syston East doesn't make things much worse.
 

sharpley

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Found an interesting cab ride video of the MML from the 80s. Shows how Leicester looked when it was 4-tracked from Wigston up to Syston. Filmed during the re-signalling at the time. I vaguely remember the Blue Circle cement works where Syston station now is.

1:24:54 to 1:33:48 in the video below is Wigston to Syston

 

Class 170101

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The block sections could be shortened relatively cheaply if needed. If the single line remains from Leicester to Syston South then not doubling from there to Syston East doesn't make things much worse.
Found an interesting cab ride video of the MML from the 80s. Shows how Leicester looked when it was 4-tracked from Wigston up to Syston. Filmed during the re-signalling at the time. I vaguely remember the Blue Circle cement works where Syston station now is.

1:24:54 to 1:33:48 in the video below is Wigston to Syston


From the video it looks like the Syston South Jn to East Jn is double tracked would I be correct?
 

Bald Rick

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From the video it looks like the Syston South Jn to East Jn is double tracked would I be correct?

South to east is single now, and has been for more than 30 years. Presumably it was double before Leicester resignalling. East to North is still double.
 

Class 170101

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South to east is single now, and has been for more than 30 years. Presumably it was double before Leicester resignalling. East to North is still double.

Yes have seen its single now having traversed it a few times over the last 20 years or so, really needs to go back to double in my book if you want more freight this way, not withstanding the other constraints elsewhere between Ipswich and Nuneaton.
 

edwin_m

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Yes have seen its single now having traversed it a few times over the last 20 years or so, really needs to go back to double in my book if you want more freight this way, not withstanding the other constraints elsewhere between Ipswich and Nuneaton.
There's not much point in doubling it without also adding the fourth track back into Leicester. The only possible benefit might be to hold a train on the curve while there is a conflicting movement in front, but the curve is only about 400 metres long so not possible to do that with a freight train without blocking the junction behind it.

I've often wondered why the north to east curve (which is even shorter) was left as double.
 

Class 170101

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There's not much point in doubling it without also adding the fourth track back into Leicester. The only possible benefit might be to hold a train on the curve while there is a conflicting movement in front, but the curve is only about 400 metres long so not possible to do that with a freight train without blocking the junction behind it.

I've often wondered why the north to east curve (which is even shorter) was left as double.

Presumably the north to east curve was left double as the route from Peterborough is double and from Syston North Jn to Trent Jn is fast and slow pairings.

I agree with your remarks about Syston South to East Jns being single without Syston to Leicester being returned to four tracks but frankly if you want freight to run this way rather than via London then Syston to Leicester needs four tracking.
 

Bald Rick

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Yes have seen its single now having traversed it a few times over the last 20 years or so, really needs to go back to double in my book if you want more freight this way, not withstanding the other constraints elsewhere between Ipswich and Nuneaton.

Making it double is a big job - it means the north curve has to be singled (or drop the linespeed on the south curve considerably, which would eat capacity), and Syston station would need a complete rebuild - in fact probably relocated a bit north.
 

Ianno87

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Making it double is a big job - it means the north curve has to be singled (or drop the linespeed on the south curve considerably, which would eat capacity), and Syston station would need a complete rebuild - in fact probably relocated a bit north.

It's a fast junction as it stands - Down Fast to Melton Mowbray is flashing yellows
 

Bald Rick

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As an aside - that video is superb. Shows how much the railway has changed in the last 35 years. Wet spots everywhere. Very little traffic south of Bedford, and much less further north. Interestingly it highlights the bridge over the M25 , even thoug( the Motorway wasn’t open at that point.

It's a fast junction as it stands - Down Fast to Melton Mowbray is flashing yellows

Yep, 40mph.
 

sharpley

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It's a fast junction as it stands - Down Fast to Melton Mowbray is flashing yellows
Doesn't seem that quick when you pass over it. The XC service definitely slows down for it, plus theres the crossover onto the up Peterborough once you've cleared the Syston south to east single line. That's just my impression as a passenger though.
 

Class 170101

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Making it double is a big job - it means the north curve has to be singled (or drop the linespeed on the south curve considerably, which would eat capacity),

Surely without doubling it makes all the other schmes for Ipswich to Nuneaton pointless as you are still leaving a single line constraint in the middle of the route, especially if XC want to go 2tph east of Leicester as well.

and Syston station would need a complete rebuild - in fact probably relocated a bit north.

This confused me, surely it should be south or are effective suggesting moving the station into the triangle?
 

Bald Rick

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Surely without doubling it makes all the other schmes for Ipswich to Nuneaton pointless as you are still leaving a single line constraint in the middle of the route, especially if XC want to go 2tph east of Leicester as well.
A short stretch of single line isn’t the end of the world, if most other constraints are sorted.

This confused me, surely it should be south or are effective suggesting moving the station into the triangle?
North - but only a little. There is redundant railway land there that would enable an island platform with the South Junction immediately north of the platforms. There’s not enough space to the south without needing land take (and a bridge rebuild).
 

TheBigD

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Doesn't seem that quick when you pass over it. The XC service definitely slows down for it, plus theres the crossover onto the up Peterborough once you've cleared the Syston south to east single line. That's just my impression as a passenger though.

It's 40mph through the junctions and south curve. East of Syston it's 75mph, south of Syston it's 50mph on the slow line and (I think) 100mph on the fast lines.
 

The Planner

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I must admit that surprised me. How wold fight train from Felixstowe to Nuneaton be cross from East to West between Syston and Nuneaton?
Across the station throat prior to Knighton tunnels, would need a good 6, or even 7, minute margin I reckon before the next down train (2 after the first down, 5 before the next) with a 775m 1600t freight. Chances of getting to timetable one that is continually moving is remote. Sods law will dictate that the up freight path will be directly after a South Wigston stopper too :lol:
 

Tomnick

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It's 40mph through the junctions and south curve. East of Syston it's 75mph, south of Syston it's 50mph on the slow line and (I think) 100mph on the fast lines.
65mph on the slow line, but approach control from red towards Peterborough vs flashing yellows from the Down Fast.
 
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