Let's put it to the forum: which has been the worst Secretary of State for Transport?

[LNW-GW Joint]

So what about the Deansgate corridor works? That TWAO has been sitting on Grayling's desk for three years (and seven days) and has made one of the headline projects in the Northern Hub into a white elephant.

My perception (might well be wrong) is that NR itself didn't believe in the Castlefield works, with remarks like there were not many benefits for the money.
Then the money disappeared (for CP5), or was swallowed by something else.
Since the timetable meltdown and performance problems across Manchester, no doubt things are being reassessed.
But I still haven't heard NR say they must have this project to make the whole thing work.
Wasn't the plan to find a "digital solution" for peanuts?
All gone quiet on that, too.

 

[Altfish]

Ernest Marples.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Marples

Bent as a 9 bob note.

Yes, this one.

 

[Neil Urquhart]

Marples +1

 

[driver_m]

Wrong, as it happens.

But at the time he did that, his coach was pelted with some eggs when he was visiting somewhere in Northants and the local plod took it upon themselves to prosecute said protesters. As someone rightly asked the then Chief Constable, it seems that throwing eggs is an offence whereas throwing a punch isn't, perhaps next time the protesters should have thrown a punch at the then deputy PM.

It seems senior Labour figures aren't beyond assaulting people -
"Simpson became a BBC reporter in 1970. On his very first day, the then-prime minister Harold Wilson, angered by what he saw as the sudden and impudent appearance of the novice's microphone, punched him in the stomach" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Simpson_(journalist)

I see the SOHIC has been used. My apologies.

 

[superkev]

Sit on his hands (Very safe) Darling cancelled all the light rail schemes (prob only decicion he ever made) allegedly after a meeting with the First group boss when the I'll fated FTR tram bus was sketched out. Definatly my vote with Mr bi mode a close second.
K

 

[furnessvale]

Blatantly obvious who's going to win it. What surprises me is people picking Adonis, he's the one who got the OLE ball rolling. I'd be intrigued to know why anyone would would pick him, when the rather useless Ruth Kelly and Buff Hoon were in post as a comparison. Probably be fairer to pick one from each of the parties as there will be some bias to account for.

Adonis also has a stated policy of removing freight from rail and putting it on HGV convoys on the motorways.

 

[Sceptre]

My perception (might well be wrong) is that NR itself didn't believe in the Castlefield works, with remarks like there were not many benefits for the money.
Then the money disappeared (for CP5), or was swallowed by something else.
Since the timetable meltdown and performance problems across Manchester, no doubt things are being reassessed.
But I still haven't heard NR say they must have this project to make the whole thing work.
Wasn't the plan to find a "digital solution" for peanuts?
All gone quiet on that, too.

The Ordsall Chord and Platform 15 and 16 were part of the same package; the intention was to build the chord first to allow for a gradual increase in capacity between 2016 and 2018.

Regardless, TWAOs should be approved within six months of landing on the desk; that it hasn't happened in over three years is worrying. I imagine that if McLoughlin was still in the post, he would've approved it before Christmas 2016.

 

[DerekC]

Interesting that (with the exception of top scorer Chris Grayling) four out of the other five scoring more than 2% of the votes are from Labour. Does that say something about Labour or about contributors to this Forum?

 

[Sceptre]

Labour were useless under Blair for transport outside London.

 

[yorksrob]

Since Marples/Fraser aren't on the menu, I've opted for McGregor - Author of the original privatisation fiasco.

 

[DerekC]

Blatantly obvious who's going to win it. What surprises me is people picking Adonis, he's the one who got the OLE ball rolling. I'd be intrigued to know why anyone would would pick him, when the rather useless Ruth Kelly and Buff Hoon were in post as a comparison. .

That's not really right. The electrification ball started to roll in December 2007 shortly after publication of the 2007 HLOS, which didn't include any but prompted such a negative response from the industry that Ruth Kelly changed her mind and agreed to Network Rail and ATOC's proposal to start developing the case. Atkins had already done a piece of work for RSSB and DfT which showed that there was a reasonable case for GWML and MML and it moved forward from there. Admittedly Andrew Adonis gave it a good push when he arrived, but he shouldn't get all the credit.

Does John Prescott get any credit for TPWS?

 

[driver_m]

That's not really right. The electrification ball started to roll in December 2007 shortly after publication of the 2007 HLOS, which didn't include any but prompted such a negative response from the industry that Ruth Kelly changed her mind and agreed to Network Rail and ATOC's proposal to start developing the case. Atkins had already done a piece of work for RSSB and DfT which showed that there was a reasonable case for GWML and MML and it moved forward from there. Admittedly Andrew Adonis gave it a good push when he arrived, but he shouldn't get all the credit.

Does John Prescott get any credit for TPWS?

My point about Adonis was more in relation to how bad Kelly and Hoon were in comparison to him. At least he had an interest in the railway. Not something that could be levelled at the other two .I also don't think Prescott was so bad either, blatantly obvious that he is a Marmite Character and that probably reflected in his votes. I'm a Labour member, but would never defend their record, (Kelly/Hoon) they were garbage.

 

[HH]

He's had quite a while in the post. It's fine to have a few screw ups in the first year but constantly for 3 years? Inexcusable IMO. Should've been sacked after the May timetable disaster.

Actually the May TT is the one thing I don't think you can blame on him. There is absolutely no chance he knew what was happening on this. No-one wanted to even admit to themselves that a clusterflock was occurring.

GTR OTOH has Grayling's grubby mitts all over it.

 

[Sceptre]

The May timetable fiasco is directly related to the lack of work on the Castlefield corridor (which has been on Grayling's desk for 1108 days…), and may end up stymying Northern's promise of delivering the "Northern Connect" services.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Lord Reith ?

(around 1941)

 

[Killingworth]

The May timetable fiasco is directly related to the lack of work on the Castlefield corridor (which has been on Grayling's desk for 1108 days…), and may end up stymying Northern's promise of delivering the "Northern Connect" services.

It's under his desk used as a foot rest. He's never seen it!

 

[Bald Rick]

Unquestionably David Howells. Oversaw the Serpell Report. ASLEF strike. The lowest point of BR.

Also my MP at the time. Many years later I spoke alongside him at an event (non-political I might add). General view was that I was better despite being somewhat less experienced and metaphorically still in short trousers.

And then his daughter married George Osborne.

 

[yorksrob]

Lord Reith ?

(around 1941)

I hold him at least partionally responsible for several questionable decisions around the Radio 2 schedule

 

[HH]

The May timetable fiasco is directly related to the lack of work on the Castlefield corridor (which has been on Grayling's desk for 1108 days…), and may end up stymying Northern's promise of delivering the "Northern Connect" services.

Not sure how the problems around London were affected by the Castlefield corridor, but pray enlighten me.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The SoS is a figurehead, largely doing what his/her civil servants suggest. Are we certain Grayling or any of the others really disagree strongly with the advice they get?

The civil servants, in the context you mean, don't influence policy at all. Policy is influenced by the SPaDs- and these are appointed by the politician.

convinently forgetting the NXEC debacle where he got the government a lot less money than National Express offered

Not this old chestnut again! The offer, such as it was, had more strings attached than a Punch and Judy show.

He didn't. The end.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Not this old chestnut again! The offer, such as it was, had more strings attached than a Punch and Judy show.

He didn't. The end.

Nice analogy but Punch and Judy are glove puppets with no strings.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I hold him at least partionally responsible for several questionable decisions around the Radio 2 schedule

O/T - the demise of the "Light Service" in 1967 ?.("Home Service" became the present Radio 4) , cannot imagine Lord Reith being much of a transport supremo. Apart perhaps for broad cast cars and so on !

 

[yorksrob]

O/T - the demise of the "Light Service" in 1967 ?.("Home Service" became the present Radio 4) , cannot imagine Lord Reith being much of a transport supremo. Apart perhaps for broad cast cars and so on !

Not to mention those detector vans !

 

[Oxfordblues]

Definitely Ernest Marples, the crooked ex-chairman of the construction company Marples Ridgeway, who as Minister of Transport selected the contractor for the second Mersey road tunnel: Marples Ridgeway of course! (He'd sold all his shares to his wife for a penny).

Secondly Barbara Castle who betrayed Labour's election promise and authorised closure of 2,000 miles of railway. There was a gender issue: as the first female Minister of Transport she didn't want to be seen as being "soft" on the railways.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Definitely Ernest Marples, the crooked ex-chairman of the construction company Marples Ridgeway, who as Minister of Transport selected the contractor for the second Mersey road tunnel: Marples Ridgeway of course! (He'd sold all his shares to his wife for a penny).

Secondly Barbara Castle who betrayed Labour's election promise and authorised closure of 2,000 miles of railway. There was a gender issue: as the first female Minister of Transport she didn't want to be seen as being "soft" on the railways.

Whilst I share the contempt for Marples’ business and tax affairs I thought that it was Edmund Nuttall Limited that build the ‘Kingsway’(2nd Mersey) Tunnel.
It was also under Marples that the ‘conurbation studies’ kicked off. These led to the formation of the PTEs. The Steering Committee on Merseyside Traffic & Transport, which included the MoT, BR, local authorities, bus operators and docks board, and considered transport needs from a multi-modal perspective. Cost-benefit analysis was brought into use. Besides refining the road tunnel proposition the grouping also came up with the ‘loop and link’ idea.
Marples was, of course, the MP for Wallasey and might be accused of trying to influence things to the benefit of his constituents’ commuting to work in Liverpool. Nevertheless it would be interesting to hear views on how many other Conservative MPs bequeathed a greater transport legacy to Liverpool!

Probably one for another thread though.