Level crossing accident on Arun Valley Line 17/02/18

[Llanigraham]

Are crossings routinely fitted with CCTV or enforcement (GATSO-style) cameras for road traffic? Have there been prosecutions for jumping red wig-wags?

Yes and numerous.
Our Box probably reported a couple a month.

 

[RichardKing]

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/X98715/2018/02/18/advanced - ECS booked to run from Littlehampton to Horsham Sidings tonight (although, it should've left LIT over 40 minutes ago, but is yet to do so). As we now know, the incident train (377454) is on the down line, with another unit, which wasn't directly involved (377414), on the up...so I wonder what this movement is for?

Do we know if 377414 is still at the scene?

 

[MarkyT]

Slightly off topic for the thread but not on your comment, is there the flashing white light on the breckland line just outside Thetford, on that crossing that crosses the road to Watton, reason I ask is that everytime I travel to Norwich whether it on Greater Anglia or East Midlands Trains the train slows right down until on the crossing then picks up speed again, it gives me the impression the driver is unsure whether the barriers are down or not

Sectional Appendix shows Croxton as an AHBC-X so no local monitoring with red/white flashing lights (X means bi-di controls provided)


Looks like there may still be a temporary speed restriction over the crossing in either direction going by these streetview images from 2016 (note the 'T' boards)

Up direction:


Down direction:

 

[silverfoxcc]

It is about time the sentencing for any type of light jumping is an automatic one year ban, more for LC offences. The powers that be dont seem to understand... proposed fines for doing 1 mph over the limit, yet nothing is done about the fact that light jumping is on the increase
The way tecnology is going it cannot be beyond the wit of man to get CCTV on all crossings. The local councils seem to do it ok for yellow box offences
Sorry for the rant

 

[theageofthetra]

It is about time the sentencing for any type of light jumping is an automatic one year ban, more for LC offences. The powers that be dont seem to understand... proposed fines for doing 1 mph over the limit, yet nothing is done about the fact that light jumping is on the increase
The way tecnology is going it cannot be beyond the wit of man to get CCTV on all crossings. The local councils seem to do it ok for yellow box offences
Sorry for the rant

Thats because they get the revenue from those offences. Network rail must be flushed because they clearly don't need the money.

 

[MarkyT]

It is about time the sentencing for any type of light jumping is an automatic one year ban, more for LC offences. The powers that be dont seem to understand... proposed fines for doing 1 mph over the limit, yet nothing is done about the fact that light jumping is on the increase
The way tecnology is going it cannot be beyond the wit of man to get CCTV on all crossings. The local councils seem to do it ok for yellow box offences
Sorry for the rant

A lot of automatic crossings are in very remote rural areas where good communications for CCTV is difficult or expensive. That's one reason why the autonomous systems were developed in the first place. AHB alarms are very simple for example. A couple of relay repeat circuits; in modern terms very low bandwidth. Locally monitored crossings don't have any connection back to base at all. You can have high quality local image capture and storage however which is the standard incident camera solution, potentially with a low bandwidth incident alarm transmission to get a response team out to the site ASAP. Won't catch the offender red handed clearly but once the camera evidence is collected...

 

[Signal Head]

The picture I saw was here:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...transport-police-uk-news-latest-a8215616.html

It looks like a signalling equipment building to me.

Having had a look at Google Streetview I agree it's the signalling REB. There is another building further from the crossing which may, or may not, be a TP Hut

 

[Carlisle]

It is about time the sentencing for any type of light jumping is an automatic one year ban, more for LC offences. The powers that be dont seem to understand... proposed fines for doing 1 mph over the limit, yet nothing is done about the fact that light jumping is on the increase
The way tecnology is going it cannot be beyond the wit of man to get CCTV on all crossings. The local councils seem to do it ok for yellow box offences
Sorry for the rant

Ok but do bear in mind not every single level crossing incident has turned out to br the drivers fault https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-norfolk-36111795

 

[Bromley boy]

Ok but do bear in mind not every single level crossing incident has turned out to br the drivers fault https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-norfolk-36111795

But that doesn't detract from the fact the majority of the incidents are down to crossing users, and it would be desirable to have a better means of gathering evidence to prosecute offenders, hopefully introducing a deterrent.

 

[neonison]

From memory in the 1980s the ‘Another Train Coming’ indication formed an illuminated or dot-matrix panel below the wig-wags. These days it is simply a fixed sign stating ‘ANOTHER TRAIN COMING if lights continue to show’ which is more passive.

I am not making any conjecture about the incident of this thread but there is a mindset that a long wait means something has failed. Few car drivers will not have come across TTL in remote areas which are stuck on red in both directions whilst motorway matrix displays are legendary for warning of incidents which have long-since evaporated.

 

[dk1]

Slightly off topic for the thread but not on your comment, is there the flashing white light on the breckland line just outside Thetford, on that crossing that crosses the road to Watton, reason I ask is that everytime I travel to Norwich whether it on Greater Anglia or East Midlands Trains the train slows right down until on the crossing then picks up speed again, it gives me the impression the driver is unsure whether the barriers are down or not

Somebody has beaten me to it with a superb reply. Croxton is an AHB so has no indication for rail traffic. It has had a 40mph temporary speed restriction imposed for several years now & is even built into the timetable. It was put on due to the risk of speeding on that road apparently when being assessed. There seems little that will satisfy the powers that be so I am told that sadly this will now become a permanent speed restriction in the near future.

 

[LowLevel]

Somebody has beaten me to it with a superb reply. Croxton is an AHB so has no indication for rail traffic. It has had a 40mph temporary speed restriction imposed for several years now & is even built into the timetable. It was put on due to the risk of speeding on that road apparently when being assessed. There seems little that will satisfy the powers that be so I am told that sadly this will now become a permanent speed restriction in the near future.

It came up in our level crossing group meeting a while ago that Croxton would be converted to MCB-OD at 'some point' much as they've done with Chettisham near Ely (though I assume that job is far easier as they just replated a couple of auto signals as controlled to function as the protecting signals whereas Croxton would require them to be installed outright).

 

[AlterEgo]

I was just going to post to my wife the somewhat odious Kate Jackson's Twitter feed re. this incident - link not now available. Surprised? - no!

They’ve locked their account to private so the tweet can no longer be seen by people that don’t follow them. They have also changed their username.

Plenty of screenshots around on Twitter though, including one of them gloating about how much annoyance they’d caused.

 

[dk1]

It came up in our level crossing group meeting a while ago that Croxton would be converted to MCB-OD at 'some point' much as they've done with Chettisham near Ely (though I assume that job is far easier as they just replated a couple of auto signals as controlled to function as the protecting signals whereas Croxton would require them to be installed outright).

Shame Spronces & especially Browick Road couldn't be converted to MCB-OD (or CCTV since the the OD crossings have become expensive/gone out of favour) then we wouldn't be subject to the ludicrous crawl down road from Attleborough/Wymondham.

I don't sign the route over Chettisham only pass over as a passenger. I hadn't noticed the AHB had been changed.

 

[dk1]

Plenty of screenshots around on Twitter though, including one of them gloating about how much annoyance they’d caused.

That came across in the post "I was just going to post to my wife the somewhat odious Kate Jackson's Twitter feed" that it was something to be proud of her for

Well God forbid if she was married to me the only thing I'd be entering into Google this morning is "getting a divorce".

 

[trainophile]

Dreadfully sad, and I admit I haven't read the whole thread. But the first thing I thought was that a man of 72, who may have been on an unfamiliar stretch of road (going to a football match so probably not his usual motoring territory), may have been momentarily confused by the half barrier, and was on the track before he realised that it wasn't just a road works diversion or similar. I don't think we should assume crass recklessness in this case - for another thing what grandad would wittingly risk the life of his beloved grandson just to avoid waiting a couple of minutes? An appalling and tragic accident, and my heart goes out to all involved.

 

[Signal Head]

From memory in the 1980s the ‘Another Train Coming’ indication formed an illuminated or dot-matrix panel below the wig-wags. These days it is simply a fixed sign stating ‘ANOTHER TRAIN COMING if lights continue to show’ which is more passive.

They were originally neon tubes behind a mesh grille, which could explain the dot matrix appearance.

 

[Sunset route]

From memory in the 1980s the ‘Another Train Coming’ indication formed an illuminated or dot-matrix panel below the wig-wags. These days it is simply a fixed sign stating ‘ANOTHER TRAIN COMING if lights continue to show’ which is more passive.

I am not making any conjecture about the incident of this thread but there is a mindset that a long wait means something has failed. Few car drivers will not have come across TTL in remote areas which are stuck on red in both directions whilst motorway matrix displays are legendary for warning of incidents which have long-since evaporated.

As there were two trains envolved in this incident, there couldn’t of been no waiting for the second train to pass, then assuming the barriers had failed and jumping the lights, as by default that means only one train was involved as the first train would of been well clear and on its way. That’s if you think about it logically.

 

[sarahj]

As there were two trains envolved in this incident, there couldn’t of been no waiting for the second train to pass, then assuming the barriers had failed and jumping the lights, as by default that means only one train was involved as the first train would of been well clear and on its way. That’s if you think about it logically.

As discussed above, due the sequence of trains it is possible two other trains passed before hand. So it could have been, get to the crossing, barriers go down, down train passes, then up trains, slight wait, then down train then up train. They crossed during the slight wait, prob thinking after the second train had passed the barriers had failed. (only guesses though)

 

[Sunset route]

As discussed above, due the sequence of trains it is possible two other trains passed before hand. So it could have been, get to the crossing, barriers go down, down train passes, then up trains, slight wait, then down train then up train. They crossed during the slight wait, prob thinking after the second train had passed the barriers had failed. (only guesses though)

That’s as much as I’m saying until the RAIB announce their investigation with the brief discription. This incident is not so much close to home but in the living room next to me. This is a REC call that every signaller will dread to receive, even more so than a suicide which happen all to frequently these days. The signaller concerned is a strong character but even they left the shift with the weight of the world on their shoulders. All deaths in such tragic circumstances will have an effect, not only to the families of the deceased, the unfortunate train crew, the signaller dealing with the train crew while making the line safe and coordinating everything, and the emergency services and railway responders that get called out.

There will nothing new to be gleaned from this event until the RAIB bulletin and then report. Moderates split the greater off topic talk of how various crossings work into a separate topic and lock thread until the RAIB release information.

 

[jon0844]

That’s as much as I’m saying until the RAIB announce their investigation with the brief discription. This incident is not so much close to home but in the living room next to me. This is a REC call that every signaller will dread to receive, even more so than a suicide which happen all to frequently these days. The signaller concerned is a strong character but even they left the shift with the weight of the world on their shoulders. All deaths in such tragic circumstances will have an effect, not only to the families of the deceased, the unfortunate train crew, the signaller dealing with the train crew while making the line safe and coordinating everything, and the emergency services and railway responders that get called out.

There will nothing new to be gleaned from this event until the RAIB bulletin and then report. Moderates split the greater off topic talk of how various crossings work into a separate topic and lock thread until the RAIB release information.

I am not sure this thread should be locked just because there will be speculation. That's what happens on discussion forums. Moderators can and will monitor things and make sure things are kept in line, and anyone that believes a post crosses the line (sic) should report it.

 

[Sunset route]

I am not sure this thread should be locked just because there will be speculation. That's what happens on discussion forums. Moderators can and will monitor things and make sure things are kept in line, and anyone that believes a post crosses the line (sic) should report it.

Then maybe it’s just for my own selfish benefit, as I can’t use speculation in this discussion, just facts and these are facts that can’t be shared yet in a public forum.

 

[jon0844]

Then maybe it’s just for my own selfish benefit, as I can’t use speculation in this discussion, just facts and these are facts that can’t be shared yet in a public forum.

There have already been many facts shared here.

 

[45669]

Then maybe it’s just for my own selfish benefit, as I can’t use speculation in this discussion, just facts and these are facts that can’t be shared yet in a public forum.

For the benefit of those of us not familiar with all the initials currently in use on the modern railway, I wonder whether you can let us know what REC means? Probably obvious, I know.

 

[45669]

Has it been established in which direction the car was travelling? I ask because I am wondering whether the driver could have been dazzled by the bright, low early morning sun? That has been a factor in other level crossing accidents.

 

[Sunset route]

Railway Emergency Call via the GSM-R radio system.

 

[87 027]

I think I've seen elsewhere on this forum that the legal difference is that emergency vehicles are allowed to drive through a red traffic light (treating it as a Give Way sign) but must stop like everybody else at red lights flashing side to side

Edit - I see Llanigraham has already made this point

 

[Darandio]

They’ve locked their account to private so the tweet can no longer be seen by people that don’t follow them. They have also changed their username.

Plenty of screenshots around on Twitter though, including one of them gloating about how much annoyance they’d caused.

At the time @Wychwood93 asked they had indeed locked their account, but not long after they made it public again and changed their profile picture before posting more incendiary stuff before doing the above.

Has it completely gone now?

 

[jon0844]

At the time @Wychwood93 asked they had indeed locked their account, but not long after they made it public again and changed their profile picture before posting more incendiary stuff before doing the above.

Has it completely gone now?

Makes you wonder what is going on in her head? She's been shamed in public for what she said, seemingly apologised (of sorts) but then decided to go all out to say 'F U' to everyone. Perhaps that didn't work out too well either, unsurprisingly.

 

[sarahj]

That’s as much as I’m saying until the RAIB announce their investigation with the brief discription. This incident is not so much close to home but in the living room next to me. This is a REC call that every signaller will dread to receive, even more so than a suicide which happen all to frequently these days. The signaller concerned is a strong character but even they left the shift with the weight of the world on their shoulders. All deaths in such tragic circumstances will have an effect, not only to the families of the deceased, the unfortunate train crew, the signaller dealing with the train crew while making the line safe and coordinating everything, and the emergency services and railway responders that get called out.

There will nothing new to be gleaned from this event until the RAIB bulletin and then report. Moderates split the greater off topic talk of how various crossings work into a separate topic and lock thread until the RAIB release information.

As I said just guesses on why folks would jump the lights if they did due to the quick sequence of trains that run down there. As for being involved, I will know the drivers involved, the staff on the trains, the on call staff that went out, know the line, know the crossing, but don't think locking the thread is right for now. There is the clear up, line will not open until monday, if it does...Updates will be made. No one has said they know what has happened, just general chat on the subject. There are certain things about this that I will not post, but will post general stuff thats out there, or needed to be known such as repairs, etc.