Level crossing accident on Arun Valley Line 17/02/18

[Sunset route]

Looking at the press photo the rear of the down train involved is visible just past the crossing so it's possible it didn't 'strike out' fully, especially likely if treadles and track circuit cables were damaged in the incident.

Just a quick correction, train detection on the Arun Valley is via Axle Counters and not track circuits. As it stands one REB has been totally trashed by this tragic incident which has taken out all the crossing controls plus about 12 Axle Counter sections, all of which will all need repairing.

 

[Ben.A.98]

Just a quick correction, train detection on the Arun Valley is via Axle Counters and not track circuits. As it stands one REB has been totally trashed by this tragic incident which has taken out all the crossing controls plus about 12 Axle Counter sections, all of which will all need repairing.

It was surprising how quickly that REB was up in flames this morning, it really was a shocking scene to see the car crushed and in half, just when you least expect it right in front of you. People who jump lights should be shown something like this, and made to realise that you can't play chicken with a train, its not worth it and you won't win.

 

[furnessvale]

I don’t get why they don’t get rid of railway wig-wags and use normal traffic lights. I bet a small proportion of drivers believe the wig-wags are just warnings rather than a legally enforceable light. Just put normal lights and a red light jumper camera up and I’m sure there’d be more respect.

This has been mentioned before but there are difficulties, including the fact that emergency services can jump red lights but not wig-wags.

 

[Signal Head]

I don’t get why they don’t get rid of railway wig-wags and use normal traffic lights. I bet a small proportion of drivers believe the wig-wags are just warnings rather than a legally enforceable light. Just put normal lights and a red light jumper camera up and I’m sure there’d be more respect.

Interesting point. There have been crossings with standard road traffic signals one I am aware of (still extant but planned for closure) is Barnsley.

The principal difference is that emergency vehicles are permitted to pass ordinary traffic signals at Red, but not 'wig wags'.

I suspect most red light (road variety) 'jumpers' simply chance it just after the red has lit on their approach, ie they wouldn't ignore a 'full' red.

Doing the same on a level crossing is unlikely to be dangerous, because there is always a delay between the red road lights illuminating and the barriers lowering, going round the barriers after they have lowered is another matter of course.

It would be interesting to know if the provision of ordinary traffic signals vice wig wags would alter people's behaviour when faced with a closed AHB, but I don't see any way of gathering real world data.

 

[MarkyT]

Just a quick correction, train detection on the Arun Valley is via Axle Counters and not track circuits. As it stands one REB has been totally trashed by this tragic incident which has taken out all the crossing controls plus about 12 Axle Counter sections, all of which will all need repairing.

Makes sense. Recent resignalling.

It was surprising how quickly that REB was up in flames this morning...

Just seen a picture of that. It looks a complete write off.

 

[45669]

I guess that you meant the 'national' network but in fact there are two at Dereham on the Mid-Norfolk Railway complete with white lights. It is interesting to read that there is a kit available to convert these to half barrier operation as one of the crossings is abused on a regular basis by locals who are presumably aware of the stipulated 5mph speed of trains over the crossings.

As far as I know the crossings on the Ffestiniog Railway at Quarry Lane Minffordd and at Valvehouse Crossing and Stwlan Dam Road at Tanygrisiau are AOCLs with white lights to confirm their correct operation to the train drivers.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Makes sense. Recent resignalling.

Just seen a picture of that. It looks a complete write off.

Any links?

 

[Ben.A.98]

Just seen a picture of that. It looks a complete write off?

It is I would imagine, the lower corners looked to be buckled and bent inwards, the roof almost looked like it was on a slant. At the end of the day its a metal box filled with wood and plastics that had flames coming out the top of it. I suppose getting a new REB fitted will delay the opening of the line.

 

[Signal Head]

Makes sense. Recent resignalling.

Just seen a picture of that. It looks a complete write off.

I thought (from info earlier in this thread) that it was the TP Hut which caught fire, rather than the LC REB?

 

[Dougal2345]

I also cannot believe there are still trains about without forward facing CCTV.

It is surprising, surely even using some cheap car "dash cams" would be better than nothing...

 

[Class455]

377454

Believe it was 377414, not 454, since that seems to be showing in all the pictures I've seen of the incident, however two 377's were within the cordon, so I could be wrong.
Condolences to the family of the two people involved

 

[Ben.A.98]

Just a quick correction, train detection on the Arun Valley is via Axle Counters and not track circuits. As it stands one REB has been totally trashed by this tragic incident which has taken out all the crossing controls plus about 12 Axle Counter sections, all of which will all need repairing.

I thought (from info earlier in this thread) that it was the TP Hut which caught fire, rather than the LC REB?

Both have been mentioned upthread I suppose.

377454 was definatly the train involved with the incident, 377414 just happend to be there.

 

[Highlandspring]

Believe it was 377414, not 454, since that seems to be showing in all the pictures I've seen of the incident

Pictures from the scene show 454 with damage to the fibreglass solebar fairing and coupler.

 

[physics34]

Believe it was 377414, not 454, since that seems to be showing in all the pictures I've seen of the incident, however two 377's were within the cordon, so I could be wrong.
Condolences to the family of the two people involved

414 maybe the one which was stopped going in the other direction

 

[MarkyT]

I guess that you meant the 'national' network but in fact there are two at Dereham on the Mid-Norfolk Railway complete with white lights. It is interesting to read that there is a kit available to convert these to half barrier operation as one of the crossings is abused on a regular basis by locals who are presumably aware of the stipulated 5mph speed of trains over the crossings.

Yes I meant national network, AKA NR infrastructure. By 'kit' I mean a standard design approach rather than an 'off-the-shelf' box of parts you can order, and precise details will depend on the age of the original equipment being converted, as AOCLs were installed over quite a long period and have had many and various modifications as well as complete renewals since. One of the first jobs I did as a rookie in the Reading signalling design office back in the mid 1980s was a small modification to the red road light proving circuitry at all the Western Region AOCL examples, mostly in south Wales and Cornwall with a few on Thames Valley branches. Back then, there were similar jobs required every few years on level crossings usually after some incident had identified a small problem, but obviously any new or completely renewed example would incorporate all the lessons learned to date.

As far as I know the crossings on the Ffestiniog Railway at Quarry Lane Minffordd and at Valvehouse Crossing and Stwlan Dam Road at Tanygrisiau are AOCLs with white lights to confirm their correct operation to the train drivers.

From the ORR guidance, I don't believe AOCLs are completely out of the question to retain indefinitely on any infrastructure or even provide new in some circumstances. It's just that NR made the corporate decision they would convert all their existing examples, as most of them would have to get barriers anyway based on the ORR's risk criteria. The slow speed and generally low train frequency of heritage operations makes AOCL's continued use and even their new provision more acceptable, but even there a higher but still fairly moderate speed can result in tragic consequences, as demonstrated by the miniature train collisions on the RH&DR's open crossings, where two of the railway's drivers lost their lives in separate incidents.

 

[Mathew S]

And even worse, it appears that a journalist is sniffing round the friend of the dead boy to try to get more details out of her, despite the fact that she's presumably 15 too.

If you're aware of who that sorry excuse for a journalist is, or who they work for, please complain. No way is that justified and should never, ever happen. PM me the info if you'd rather and I'll complain myself. Thanks

 

[MarkyT]

I thought (from info earlier in this thread) that it was the TP Hut which caught fire, rather than the LC REB?

The picture I saw was here:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...transport-police-uk-news-latest-a8215616.html

It looks like a signalling equipment building to me.

 

[45669]

The slow speed and generally low train frequency of heritage operations makes AOCL's continued use and even their new provision more acceptable, but even there a higher but still fairly moderate speed can result in tragic consequences, as demonstrated by the miniature train collisions on the RH&DR's open crossings, where two of the railway's drivers lost their lives in separate incidents.

Quite so; a Double Fairlie's quite a hefty beast, and as for the WHR Garratts... I forgot to mention the Britannia Bridge crossing in Porthmadog, but I think that is an AOCL.

 

[Bromley boy]

The picture I saw was here:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...transport-police-uk-news-latest-a8215616.html

It looks like a signalling equipment building to me.

Sobering how badly damaged the car is. Hardly even recognisable as such. NR should definitely consider a hard hitting advertising campaign to highlight the dangers - perhaps even using these pictures.

 

[neonison]

That same small minority probably jump red lights.

Are crossings routinely fitted with CCTV or enforcement (GATSO-style) cameras for road traffic? Have there been prosecutions for jumping red wig-wags?

 

[Elecman]

Are crossings routinely fitted with CCTV or enforcement (GATSO-style) cameras for road traffic? Have there been prosecutions for jumping red wig-wags?

Yes there are crossings fitted with a Red Light Enforcement cameras and there have been prosecutions based on thier evidence

 

[45669]

Quite so; a Double Fairlie's quite a hefty beast, and as for the WHR Garratts... I forgot to mention the Britannia Bridge crossing in Porthmadog, but I think that is an AOCL.

I also forgot to mention Snowdon Street LC in Porthmadog.

 

[45669]

Are crossings routinely fitted with CCTV or enforcement (GATSO-style) cameras for road traffic? Have there been prosecutions for jumping red wig-wags?

I believe action was taken against a motorist who entered the Britannia Bridge level crossing in Porthmadog and followed the train across the bridge without waiting for the wig-wags to stop.

 

[MarkyT]

Quite so; a Double Fairlie's quite a hefty beast, and as for the WHR Garratts... I forgot to mention the Britannia Bridge crossing in Porthmadog, but I think that is an AOCL.

Those garratts in particular easily exceed many standard gauge locos in weight. Dead slow and start from rest AOCL applications are fairly low risk, as at Porthmadog, as long as visibility is good for both road and rail drivers. Light rail/tramway conditions really.

 

[45669]

Those garratts in particular easily exceed many standard gauge locos in weight. Dead slow and start from rest AOCL applications are fairly low risk, as at Porthmadog, as long as visibility is good for both road and rail drivers. Light rail/tramway conditions really.

Down trains starting from Porthmadog Harbour Station can only depart once the wig-wags have been activated. Up trains approaching Britannia Bridge have to stop and the driver uses a plunger to activate the wig-wags. I believe he has to use the staff to unlock the system.

Snowdon Street is more conventional and the wig-wags are activated by the train. Not sure how though. Track circuit or treadle I presume. Not very good visibility in at least one direction.

 

[theageofthetra]

I can't work out where she was going. I thought the incident is between Littlehampton and Horsham, yet she says her train was terminating at Horsham, *before* her destination, from which I infer she is southbound. However, she then says she has to go to Littlehampton, then Brighton, then Crawley, implying she's trying to go north.
Confused.

Her previous tweets confirm she's a Sussex based Lincoln City supporter and was presumably on her way to Crawley (where to add to her excellent day her team got thumped 3-1)

 

[CockneySparrow]

The driver wouldn't know. They fail blocking the road as tend not to be linked with signals although the box would have an indication it has failed. Only AOCL, ABCL & AOCL+B types of automatic crossings operate with flashing white lights to indicate to the train driver that the crossing is operating correctly.

Slightly off topic for the thread but not on your comment, is there the flashing white light on the breckland line just outside Thetford, on that crossing that crosses the road to Watton, reason I ask is that everytime I travel to Norwich whether it on Greater Anglia or East Midlands Trains the train slows right down until on the crossing then picks up speed again, it gives me the impression the driver is unsure whether the barriers are down or not

 

[185143]

If you're aware of who that sorry excuse for a journalist is, or who they work for, please complain. No way is that justified and should never, ever happen. PM me the info if you'd rather and I'll complain myself. Thanks

I'll second that.

 

[tsr]

A TP hut was set on fire and an REB was obliterated, to clarify.

 

[Llanigraham]

I don’t get why they don’t get rid of railway wig-wags and use normal traffic lights. I bet a small proportion of drivers believe the wig-wags are just warnings rather than a legally enforceable light. Just put normal lights and a red light jumper camera up and I’m sure there’d be more respect.

Because normal traffic lights can be treated as a "Give Way" by an Emergency Vehicle whilst on blue lights, but wig wags mean STOP for everyone.