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Lewes Bonfire station closures - over the top?

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Shimbleshanks

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I spent a very enjoyable evening at Lewes Bonfire night yesterday evening. I've never before, so have can't speak about the situation in past years, but I didn't witness any overcrowding or rowdy behaviour. Maybe the fact that bonfire night is in the middle of the week reduced the numbers, perhaps.
Getting there was hardly easy, though. Not only was Lewes station closed from late afternoon, but so were all stations within a five mile radius - meaning that the only practical way for most people to get there was by car.
Now I can understand why the authorities might want to close Lewes station itself after a certain time; you wouldn't want a train arriving and injecting perhaps up to 500-1,000 people into an already overcrowded town. But why close all the stations in the surrounding area too, like Glynde, Falmer and Cooksbridge? Surely these are far enough from Lewes town centre for any arriving crowds to be well dispersed by the time they have arrived in Lewes itself? And the trains ought to be running into Lewes at the end of the evening to take people away - there is a strong case for running extra services at these times, if that is not beyond the wit of the rail operator. I thought railways were supposed to be good at handling mass numbers?
Me, I managed it by taking my bike on the train to Burgess Hill and cycling the ten miles to and from Lewes - not the safest option for the return journey after taking a few pints of Harveys Best on board, I have to admit. But judging by the number of cars stuffed into laybys on the approach to Lewes, most visitors went by car. Whether the police and other authorities like it or not, people are determined to visit the event, and it would be better for them to go by train rather than create a traffic problem.
Also, by not having late trains out of Lewes, surely that might encourage those people who do go by train to stay and roam about the town all night, until the first trains in the morning.
 
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EastCoastway

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https://www.sussexexpress.co.uk/news/people/lewes-bonfire-2019-visitors-told-to-stay-away-1-9126902

The police chief in charge of the public safety of Lewes Bonfire has urged the public not to come to the town on November 5.

In a statement on Monday (October 28) Superintendent Howard Hodges, the head of the group responsible for the overall safety of the event, issued a reminder that there will be changes to train services and road closures.

He insisted that measures ‘are being brought in to help the event pass safely’ and that there ‘remain serious concerns about overcrowding’.

Superintendent Hodges said: “Public safety is our priority...
 
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Robertj21a

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This has been done to death on a previous thread. In short, it's outgrown the size of the town and the locals are now discouraging the vast numbers.
 

TrainGeekUK

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Having lived in Lewes for 20 odd years previously, the torrent of people coming in specifically to cause mayhem and chaos had to stop, and this was probably the only feasible way to deal with it. The railway station itself when trains ran was so chaotic and quite frankly unsafe with thousands of people descending on mass.
 

Shimbleshanks

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Having lived in Lewes for 20 odd years previously, the torrent of people coming in specifically to cause mayhem and chaos had to stop, and this was probably the only feasible way to deal with it. The railway station itself when trains ran was so chaotic and quite frankly unsafe with thousands of people descending on mass.
I do accept that you probably can't have Lewes station itself open at certain times, but not the outlying stations - and the train would be a very effective way of getting rid of all these revellers when the evening came to an end. Like it or not, people do seem determined to come to this event and surely it's better that they come by train than by car?
 

Shimbleshanks

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This has been done to death on a previous thread. In short, it's outgrown the size of the town and the locals are now discouraging the vast numbers.
Can't say I noticed anyone trying to 'discourage' me last night - but perhaps I'm too thick-skinned! And if people are determined to come, surely it's better that they use public transport than clog up the local roads?
 

Darandio

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Can't say I noticed anyone trying to 'discourage' me last night - but perhaps I'm too thick-skinned! And if people are determined to come, surely it's better that they use public transport than clog up the local roads?

The police have been telling people like you to stay away for the past week, just like they do every year. Are you saying that isn't an effort to discourage you?
 

Shimbleshanks

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The police have been telling people like you to stay away for the past week, just like they do every year. Are you saying that isn't an effort to discourage you?
Well, clearly it didn't work in my case. As I said, while perhaps numbers are down, I can't say that it seemed like a massive crowd control or public order problem - certainly no worse than Oxford Street in the run up to Christmas. Perhaps we should cancel all train and bus services into central London in December in case it gets too busy?

All the current Lewes Bonfire measures in place do is to discriminate against public transport users as opposed to car drivers - not very green in this day and age...
 

Robertj21a

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Well, clearly it didn't work in my case. As I said, while perhaps numbers are down, I can't say that it seemed like a massive crowd control or public order problem - certainly no worse than Oxford Street in the run up to Christmas. Perhaps we should cancel all train and bus services into central London in December in case it gets too busy?

All the current Lewes Bonfire measures in place do is to discriminate against public transport users as opposed to car drivers - not very green in this day and age...

Where would you be parking during the Lewes Bonfire event ?
 

Shimbleshanks

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Where would you be parking during the Lewes Bonfire event ?
You can get there early in the day and park up in the town centre. Or you can find a layby with a couple of miles or so of the town and walk. Or if you have a willing driver arrange for them to drop you reasonably close to the town centre and then drive off again and pick you up later. Plenty of options for car users - so why penalise public transport passengers?
 

6Gman

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Well, clearly it didn't work in my case. As I said, while perhaps numbers are down, I can't say that it seemed like a massive crowd control or public order problem - certainly no worse than Oxford Street in the run up to Christmas. liPerhaps we should cancel all train and bus services into central London in December in case it gets too busy?

All the current Lewes Bonfire measures in place do is to discriminate against public transport users as opposed to car drivers - not very green in this day and age...

Given the environmental impact of the event itself I'm not sure that being green or otherwise is high on their list of priorities.
 

6Gman

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You can get there early in the day and park up in the town centre. Or you can find a layby with a couple of miles or so of the town and walk. Or if you have a willing driver arrange for them to drop you reasonably close to the town centre and then drive off again and pick you up later. Plenty of options for car users - so why penalise public transport passengers?

Safety.
 

Bletchleyite

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Getting there was hardly easy, though. Not only was Lewes station closed from late afternoon, but so were all stations within a five mile radius - meaning that the only practical way for most people to get there was by car.

That's the idea. They don't want outsiders there at all - it's a local event for local people - it doesn't have the capacity to take more and it just tends to import antisocial behaviour, so the closures are with Police support. There are plenty of other Sussex bonfires to go to (as these large events are rather a tradition round those parts) - I personally recommend Brockham, which I think has a shuttle bus from East Grinstead.
 

BRX

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They do close roads.
Only very close to the town. The closed stations of Southease, Glynde and Falmer are a long way outside of the area closed to drivers.

So car owners can get to within a km or two of the town centre.
Train users can't get closer than about 10km away.
Even if only Lewes station were closed, train users would still be kept 2 or 3 times further away than car users are.

(Map shows closed roads)
Screen Shot 2019-11-06 at 13.54.59.jpg
 

Starmill

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Closing Cooksbridge and Glynde seems a bit irrelevant - few trains or people serve these. I can't imagine there's a great negative effect from closing them for an evening.

Closing Lewes is unavoidable as a result of the annual problems in the station and in the town when people came from all over the country to see the Lewes fires.

Closing Falmer you may have more of a case to debate. While it's not far from Lewes, it's probably far enough that people should get the message about not going to Lewes, and closing it impacts people who actually want to go to and from Falmer that day who have no interest in the fireworks. No roads in Falmer were closed.
 

Robertj21a

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I don't know what it needs for some people to understand.......

The local population DO NOT WANT *their* events ruined by masses of visitors swamping their town and their enjoyment. It used to be very enjoyable when it was still of a reasonably small size but it's been ruined by the sheer volumes now attending. We have this debate every year, but some people still don't understand.
 

option

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I don't know what it needs for some people to understand.......

The local population DO NOT WANT *their* events ruined by masses of visitors swamping their town and their enjoyment. It used to be very enjoyable when it was still of a reasonably small size but it's been ruined by the sheer volumes now attending. We have this debate every year, but some people still don't understand.

If they want to make it a 'closed' event, then they can do so, just have to do tickets.
They'll just have to pay for whatever public resources they use.
 

farleigh

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If they want to make it a 'closed' event, then they can do so, just have to do tickets.
They'll just have to pay for whatever public resources they use.
Absolutely. Hold an event in public and then get irritated that the public attend ....
 

BRX

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I don't know what it needs for some people to understand.......

The local population DO NOT WANT *their* events ruined by masses of visitors swamping their town and their enjoyment. It used to be very enjoyable when it was still of a reasonably small size but it's been ruined by the sheer volumes now attending. We have this debate every year, but some people still don't understand.

I understand that.

What I don't understand is why the authorities decide that people from outside the area can attend if they drive, but not if they come by public transport.
 

Shimbleshanks

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Perhaps keep Falmer open and run shuttle buses from there to Lewes itself? That way you could control the numbers arriving by holding back buses if it was getting too crowded.
 

Shimbleshanks

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I don't know what it needs for some people to understand.......

The local population DO NOT WANT *their* events ruined by masses of visitors swamping their town and their enjoyment. It used to be very enjoyable when it was still of a reasonably small size but it's been ruined by the sheer volumes now attending. We have this debate every year, but some people still don't understand.
I made no attempt to hide the fact that I was an 'outsider' and everyone was very friendly. Despite what I was led to believe on websites, there were no 'locals only' rules in the pubs - at least not in the three that I used.
 

DarloRich

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yeah! time for the yearly complaints about Lewes station being closed for fireworks!

This has been done to death on a previous thread. In short, it's outgrown the size of the town and the locals are now discouraging the vast numbers.

its all elf and safety gone mad guvnor. In my day............. ;)

(I agree with you!)
 

neilmc

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It's not in my area so I didn't know about this. Absolutely astonishing that a whole town can become a "no go area" in this way. Presumably if you live in Lewes and work elsewhere you have to plead with your boss to let you go before the curfew, and out of town shoppers need to be safely home before it gets dark. I do live near Appleby and wonder what would happen if this very small town were effectively cut off for a week during the Horse Fair which is actually an event which most Cumbrians will avoid and brings plenty of problems from "visitors". Are there any other places which lose their train service during events which the authorities decide people shouldn't be allowed to go to?
 

Shimbleshanks

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It's not in my area so I didn't know about this. Absolutely astonishing that a whole town can become a "no go area" in this way. Presumably if you live in Lewes and work elsewhere you have to plead with your boss to let you go before the curfew, and out of town shoppers need to be safely home before it gets dark. I do live near Appleby and wonder what would happen if this very small town were effectively cut off for a week during the Horse Fair which is actually an event which most Cumbrians will avoid and brings plenty of problems from "visitors". Are there any other places which lose their train service during events which the authorities decide people shouldn't be allowed to go to?

Trains do call at Lewes but yes, you probably would need to leave London before the end of the normal working day to arrive before the 'curfew'.

And in answer to your question, I have heard of London Underground stations being shut for crowd control reasons though that's less of an issue as the nearest alternative is usually within walking distance.

To me all this smacks of a railway management whose way of dealing with a problem is to simply withdraw the service rather than come up with a creative solution. It's the same with the London to Brighton charity bike ride - Southern's response to the fact that people might want to put bikes on their trains is simply to ban them for the entire duration of the event. British Rail i think used to bring in parcels stock or turn passenger trains into bike specials I think?
 

option

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This has been done to death on a previous thread. In short, it's outgrown the size of the town and the locals are now discouraging the vast numbers.

Are they discouraging the media from covering it?
The answer to that is evidently 'No'
 
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