Lewisham to Croydon Stations (Avoid London) - Permitted Route

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hkstudent

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I am looking to buy an Anytime ticket from Lewisham to Croydon (East / West), hoping to do a break of journey at Surrey Quays / Canada Water (Even better).

However, there's no such itinerary be available.
The shortest direct journey avoiding London would be via Peckham Rye, which the via Surrey Quays one would be less than 3 miles in excess.
Am I look at anything wrongly, or just the search engine cannot cope with such a complex journey?
I am afraid that TfL won't allow me to break the journey unless I have an itinery.
 
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Watershed

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You can't go via Canada Water on that ticket as far as I can tell - it's slightly more than 3 miles longer than the shortest route.

You can go via Surrey Quays, and itineraries are available through TrainSplit for example.
 

hkstudent

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You can't go via Canada Water on that ticket as far as I can tell - it's slightly more than 3 miles longer than the shortest route.

You can go via Surrey Quays, and itineraries are available through TrainSplit for example.
I also search through trainsplit, but also no luck on next Saturday. trainsplit also suggested me to buy two tickets.
(I checked: no suspension in LO service between Surrey Quay and West Croydon, nor GTR service between Norwood Junction and East Croydon)

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steamybrian

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Is it any quicker (or cheaper) taking a train from Lewisham to Elmers End then Croydon Tramlink to Croydon..?
 

hkstudent

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Is it any quicker (or cheaper) taking a train from Lewisham to Elmers End then Croydon Tramlink to Croydon..?
Yeah, but I am aiming to do some shopping near Surrey Quays. So that's why the journey is.
And, for train + tram journeys, they are charged as two journeys.
 

JB_B

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Trainsplit will find the £8.20 (Not Via London) fare if you specify "via Surrey Quays" for the outbound journey only and select "cheap".


Screenshot from 2021-02-13 20-04-35.png

As @Watershed has mentioned - via Surrey Quays is within 3m of the shortest route. ( Going via Canada Water wouldn't be. )
 

Hadders

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Lewisham to East Croydon Anytime Day Single is £4.60. Even if valid via Surrey Quays (which I've not checked) you are might have hassle breaking journey at Surrey Quays.

If you can manage without the break of journey at Surrey Quays then Lewisham to East Croydon using contactless is £2.90 (via New Cross/New Cross Gate or via Surrey Quays by touching the pink interchange reader)

Making two separate journeys with contactless Lewisham to Surrey Quays is £2.20 and Surrey Quays to East Croydon is £2.90. Total £5.10, just50p more expensive than a paper ticket but no hassle with break of journey.

You could take the 47 bus from Lewisham to Surrey Quays costing £1.50 then train to East Croydon £2.90. Total cost £4.40.
 

30907

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Summary: for a return, contactless/Oyster is cheaper than paper unless you need to break the journey both ways.
 

Adoarable

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(I checked: no suspension in LO service between Surrey Quay and West Croydon, nor GTR service between Norwood Junction and East Croydon)
That’s correct, but unfortunately for you there is an Overground suspension between Surrey Quays and New Cross, which may explain your difficulty in obtaining useful itineraries.

 

bb21

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Is there a shop at Surrey Quays you must get to? Is there no other option than Surrey Quays? It seems counter-intuitive otherwise if cost is a big issue and you are going out of your way on purpose, when the 75 bus is only £1.50.

Lewisham (DLR) to either Canada Water or Surrey Quays is £1.50 (£1 Railcard) - via Shadwell presumably, which is a viable route next Saturday.
After that Canada Water to West Croydon (must be West, not East) is again £1.50 (£1 Railcard).

That is your cheapest option AFAIK.
 

hkstudent

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Is there a shop at Surrey Quays you must get to? Is there no other option than Surrey Quays? It seems counter-intuitive otherwise if cost is a big issue and you are going out of your way on purpose, when the 75 bus is only £1.50.

Lewisham (DLR) to either Canada Water or Surrey Quays is £1.50 (£1 Railcard) - via Shadwell presumably, which is a viable route next Saturday.
After that Canada Water to West Croydon (must be West, not East) is again £1.50 (£1 Railcard).

That is your cheapest option AFAIK.
I need to go for a pickup at Decathlon Canada Water, which I would want to minimise the fare to be paid.
 

MikeWh

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Is there a shop at Surrey Quays you must get to? Is there no other option than Surrey Quays? It seems counter-intuitive otherwise if cost is a big issue and you are going out of your way on purpose, when the 75 bus is only £1.50.

Lewisham (DLR) to either Canada Water or Surrey Quays is £1.50 (£1 Railcard) - via Shadwell presumably, which is a viable route next Saturday.
After that Canada Water to West Croydon (must be West, not East) is again £1.50 (£1 Railcard).

That is your cheapest option AFAIK.

I need to go for a pickup at Decathlon Canada Water, which I would want to minimise the fare to be paid.
In which case I think bb21's suggestion is probably the cheapest you'll get. I'm kicking myself that I hadn't thought about DLR to Shadwell.

If East Croydon is particularly important then you'll need to pay almost double from Canada Water. From memory West to East Croydon is about 10 minutes to walk.
 

hkstudent

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In which case I think bb21's suggestion is probably the cheapest you'll get. I'm kicking myself that I hadn't thought about DLR to Shadwell.

If East Croydon is particularly important then you'll need to pay almost double from Canada Water. From memory West to East Croydon is about 10 minutes to walk.
Well, Shadwell is kind of out-of-range, it's really easy to omit that option sadly.
Yeah, thanks to TfL's off-peak scheme, fares to West Croydon is ridiculously cheap.
 

MikeWh

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Well, Shadwell is kind of out-of-range, it's really easy to omit that option sadly.
Yeah, thanks to TfL's off-peak scheme, fares to West Croydon is ridiculously cheap.
Make the most of it. £1.50 rises to £1.70 for 3, 4 or 5 zones outside zone 1 from March 1st. That's a 13% increase.
 

A Challenge

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Make the most of it. £1.50 rises to £1.70 for 3, 4 or 5 zones outside zone 1 from March 1st. That's a 13% increase.
It's still cheap though, especially for journeys like Surrey Quays to West Croydon, especially when compared to non-London prices, even in the northern PTEs.
 

island

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Using the eNRT the distances are as follows:
Lewisham to Peckham Rye 2.5
Peckham Rye to East Croydon 8.5
Total 11 – this is, I think, the shortest route by rail. (the route with a walk between New Cross and New Cross Gate is 8.75 but as I understand it one does not include walking connections when working out shortest routes.)

However
Lewisham to New Cross 1.25
New Cross to Canada Water 1.5 (it’s a quarter mile further than Surrey Quays in case it matters)
Canada Water to New Cross Gate 1.5
New Cross Gate to East Croydon 7.5
Total 11.75

As such the route is under three miles longer than the shortest route and is a permitted route.

I haven’t checked West Croydon but I’d be amazed if it came out differently.

In practice this is all academic as (a) the Overground isn’t serving New Cross on the desired date and (b) the gateline and staff won’t let you out at Canada Water regardless.
 

MikeWh

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New Cross to Canada Water 1.5 (it’s a quarter mile further than Surrey Quays in case it matters)
Canada Water to New Cross Gate 1.5
Surely the double back through Surrey Quays makes that invalid, or are double backs allowed on the shortest route?
 

Watershed

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Surely the double back through Surrey Quays makes that invalid, or are double backs allowed on the shortest route?
The shortest route may involve doubling back - e.g. where not all trains stop at all stations, say Peartree to Willington. The shortest route rule comes from NRCoT 13.1.2, which makes no reference to doubling back:
by any services (including any change of trains) over the shortest route which can be used by scheduled passenger services between the stations shown on your Ticket;

If you're relying on the "within 3 miles" extension of the rule, this comes from the Routeing Guide in Detail. This is more restrictive - you must observe any negative easements, and strictly speaking the rule only applies where there is a common Routeing Point.

However there is no general restriction on doubling back when using the "within 3 miles" extension. Any such restriction would come from negative easements.
 

island

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Surely the double back through Surrey Quays makes that invalid, or are double backs allowed on the shortest route?
The double-back prohibition only applies when using a mapped route (or when there is a negative easement, I suppose).
 
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