• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Light Rail Systems - On street running in tunnels

Status
Not open for further replies.

Junior

Member
Joined
22 May 2020
Messages
12
Location
Middlemarch
A question for light rail system trivia gurus....
  • Globally there are a huge number of light rail, metro and tram systems.
  • Of those systems there is a broad mixture of track types, e.g. ballasted track, direct fix slab & embedded track for on street running.
  • For ballasted and slab track there are examples of track in long (e.g. underground) and short tunnels (e.g. converted heavy rail corridor) ie no access to road vehicles.
  • For on street running there are examples of segregated operation and mixed operation where road vehicles share the LRV / tram transit space (though hopefully not at the same time!)
The question is whether anyone is aware of examples of mixed operation through tunnels or on bridges?

Answers on postcard and gratefully received!

Thanks in advance.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

AM9

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2014
Messages
14,191
Location
St Albans
In Prague there's a shared road/tram tunnel under Vysehrad Rock, along with numerous bridges around the city.
The Vysehrad Rock tunnel at 35m long is really no more than an elongated bridge through a rock that reaches the shore of the river. The road's surface and layout doesnt change from that on either side apart from some narrowing, (as it was built to meet the requirements of over 100 years ago).
 

MarkyT

Established Member
Joined
20 May 2012
Messages
6,232
Location
Torbay
The Downtown Seattle Transit Tunnel in the State of Washington, USA opened for trolley buses only in the 1990s, then was used for mixed running with light rail vehicles for around a decade. In 2019, it became light rail only. The Mount Washington Transit Tunnel in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, originally opened in the 1970s, is the only tunnel in the United States to operate both bus and rail services currently. Across the world there must be many hundreds of bridges carrying street tramways over rivers and canals, with many quite short and possibly unnoticed by passengers.
 
Last edited:

MadMac

Member
Joined
13 Jun 2008
Messages
955
Location
Moorpark, CA
Example that immediately comes to mind is First Street in Los Angeles. Two tracks up the middle with two lanes of road either side. The bridge was widened specifically for this.
 

jopsuk

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2008
Messages
12,771
The Coast Tram in Belgium runs mainly in its own right of way (often the median of the road) but at Oostende and Zeebrugge there is mixed traffic street running to cross the sea locks- these are interesting points, as each lock has two opening bridges, one at each end, allowing trams and traffic to keep moving during lock operations
 

Junior

Member
Joined
22 May 2020
Messages
12
Location
Middlemarch
The Downtown Seattle Transit Tunnel in the State of Washington, USA opened for trolley buses only in the 1990s, then was used for mixed running with light rail vehicles for around a decade. In 2019, it became light rail only. The Mount Washington Transit Tunnel in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, originally opened in the 1970s, is the only tunnel in the United States to operate both bus and rail services currently. Across the world there must be many hundreds of bridges carrying street tramways over rivers and canals, with many quite short and possibly unnoticed by passengers.


Ooooh! Mt Washington Tunnel is a beauty! The perfect example...

Thank you all for your replies - some interesting examples cited.
 

Geeves

Established Member
Joined
6 Jan 2009
Messages
1,911
Location
Rochdale
Theres a fairly long tunnel on the Pittsburgh light rail that is used by both trams and buses. I think it was for cars too at one point.
 

themiller

Member
Joined
4 Dec 2011
Messages
1,056
Location
Cumbria, UK
Manchester. The trams share a bridge over the Rochdale canal with road traffic between Piccadilly Gardens and Piccadilly Station although traffic is controlled by traffic lights so trams don’t mix with buses etc.
 

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,215
Manchester. The trams share a bridge over the Rochdale canal with road traffic between Piccadilly Gardens and Piccadilly Station although traffic is controlled by traffic lights so trams don’t mix with buses etc.

The Eccles line has a bridge over the Weaste freight branch on the stretch with general traffic on the A57.
 

D841 Roebuck

Established Member
Joined
16 Mar 2012
Messages
1,891
Location
Rochdale
Manchester. The trams share a bridge over the Rochdale canal with road traffic between Piccadilly Gardens and Piccadilly Station although traffic is controlled by traffic lights so trams don’t mix with buses etc.
Just before the terminus at Rochdale Town Centre the Metrolink crosses the River Roch on a very wide bridge which is shared with road traffic.
 

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,215
Just before the terminus at Rochdale Town Centre the Metrolink crosses the River Roch on a very wide bridge which is shared with road traffic.

It's single track for that short section due to the limited strength of the culvert structure.
 

Re 4/4

Member
Joined
30 Jun 2018
Messages
181
Location
Bristol
Zürich Hardbrücke is an example of a mixed tram/road viaduct crossing a heavy rail line and station - the tram stop is directly above the rail one at right angles. I think the viaduct even has all of tram, cars, bus and trolleybus.

The project for a tunnel to replace the Rosengarten crossing further down would have created a mixed tram/road tunnel I think, but it was voted down.

Edit: google link: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.3855234,8.5175125,19z/data=!3m1!1e3
 

the sniper

Established Member
Joined
4 Sep 2007
Messages
3,500
The question is whether anyone is aware of examples of mixed operation through tunnels or on bridges?

Good example of a bridge in Belgrade, Serbia:
 

themiller

Member
Joined
4 Dec 2011
Messages
1,056
Location
Cumbria, UK
I know it was never built as a mixed traffic bridge but the original plan for the bridge over the Dornoch Firth would have seen traffic lights either end of the bridge to stop road vehicles whilst trains crossed.
 

Gag Halfrunt

Member
Joined
23 Jul 2019
Messages
560
If heavy rail can be included, the Sino-Korean Friendship Bridge carries road and rail traffic between Dandong in China and Sinuiju in North Korea. It was built as a road bridge next to the existing railway bridge. However, during the Korean War the US Air Force bombed both bridges on the North Korean side. The ruins of the railway bridge on the North Korean side were demolished after the war, but the Chinese half still stands, now called the Yalu River Broken Bridge. The road bridge was repaired and the railway rerouted over it.

The Chinese government has built the New Yalu River Bridge for road traffic, but it remains unused because North Korea has not completed roads or border facilities.
 

plugwash

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2015
Messages
1,549
If heavy rail can be included, the Sino-Korean Friendship Bridge carries road and rail traffic between Dandong in China and Sinuiju in North Korea. It was built as a road bridge next to the existing railway bridge. However, during the Korean War the US Air Force bombed both bridges on the North Korean side. The ruins of the railway bridge on the North Korean side were demolished after the war, but the Chinese half still stands, now called the Yalu River Broken Bridge. The road bridge was repaired and the railway rerouted over it.
At least from the Picture on wikipedia it looks like the track runs alongside the roadway rather than embedded in it.

The Anton Anderson Memorial Tunnel in alaska on the other hand does have the rails embedded in the roadway.
 

apk55

Member
Joined
7 Jul 2011
Messages
438
Location
Altrincham
Connel Ferry bridge in the Scotish Higlands was also used by road and rail. The bridge was closed to road traffic when an infrequent train wanted to cross. As it is narrow there was only single way working for cars as well. The railway has since closed but the bridge is still in use.
 

Springs Branch

Established Member
Joined
7 Nov 2013
Messages
1,418
Location
Where my keyboard has no £ key
Melbourne's extensive tram system has both segregated and mixed running on bridges - although to be honest, these are just regular urban main road bridges, not substantial, long bridges like the example mentioned at Connel Ferry.
  • In Melbourne CBD, there are three combined road/tram bridges over the River Yarra where tramlines are segregated from the road traffic.

  • In Melbourne's suburbs, there is a handful of examples with mixed running where road vehicles share the tram tracks. For example:
    1. Maribyrong River bridge on tram routes 57 & 82.
    2. Yarra River at Church St, Richmond on Tram 78
    3. Yarra River at Wallen Rd bridge, Hawthorn on Tram 70
    4. Yarra River at Bridge Rd, Hawthorn on Trams 48 & 75 (complete with ornate tramway overhead supports)
    Google Maps link: https://goo.gl/maps/s4oxTgQ4iRGQpW1EA
    5. Yarra River at Barkers Rd, Hawthorn on Tram 109.
I guess the operator isn't called Yarra Trams for nothing.


North of the border in Sydney, the Harbour Bridge still has a busy heavy rail line on one (northern) side of the roadway.
On the opposite side of the bridge, what's now a walkway with fine harbour views was originally a pair of tram tracks - segregated from the roadway.

When these trams came off the Harbour Bridge and into the city centre, they entered a tunnel to a sub-surface terminal station at Wynyard, where interchange was possible with the heavy rail.
The tunnel section and platforms are now a slightly creepy-looking car park. Obviously trams & cars never shared these tunnels at the same time.
 
Last edited:

randyrippley

Established Member
Joined
21 Feb 2016
Messages
5,081
Liverpool's Queensway tunnel was originally intended to carry trams on its lower deck, though I don't know if it ever actually did.
 

MarkyT

Established Member
Joined
20 May 2012
Messages
6,232
Location
Torbay
Liverpool's Queensway tunnel was originally intended to carry trams on its lower deck, though I don't know if it ever actually did.
Tracks were never installed in the low level 'Central Avenue'. AFAIK, it was always planned to be a segregated reserved alignment for rail vehicles within the massive single bore though, not shared with road traffic at grade. There are many cables and utility pipes in there today although probably still room for some kind of railway if desired.
 

cool110

Member
Joined
12 Dec 2014
Messages
362
Location
Preston
There are many cables and utility pipes in there today although probably still room for some kind of railway if desired.
There isn't, following the Mont Blanc fire and subsequent safety reviews the space has been taken up by the fire refuges.
IMG_20190713_114136.jpg
 

richard1976

Member
Joined
29 Sep 2010
Messages
328
Location
Sheffield
The Coast Tram in Belgium runs mainly in its own right of way (often the median of the road) but at Oostende and Zeebrugge there is mixed traffic street running to cross the sea locks- these are interesting points, as each lock has two opening bridges, one at each end, allowing trams and traffic to keep moving during lock operations
At Zeebrugge the inland route at one of the sets of sea locks also carries a train line
 

Greybeard33

Established Member
Joined
18 Feb 2012
Messages
4,229
Location
Greater Manchester
The recently constructed Lift Bridge over the Manchester Ship Canal at Barton (adjacent to the M60 Barton High Level Bridge) currently carries just the Salford Western Gateway road. However, it has passive provision for a proposed future Metrolink extension from the Trafford Centre to Port Salford.

The bridge that carries Thorley Lane over the M56 at J5 was replaced recently. The new bridge likewise has passive provision for a future Metrolink extension from the existing Manchester Airport Station to the planned site of the Manchester Airport HS2 station.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top