Lioness Line/Watford DC connection to WCML at Watford Junction

[Egg Centric]

Is the connection to the WCML at the north end of the Lioness/Watford DC Line used for anything scheduled these days (I'm confident about no passenger services, but anything else?). And what else uses it? I would imagine some engineering stock might but I'd absolutely love to hear about anything that uses DC into platform 6 then switches to AC (or other way around if going the other way).

 

[Disco Bat]

Is the connection to the WCML at the north end of the Lioness/Watford DC Line used for anything scheduled these days (I'm confident about no passenger services, but anything else?). And what else uses it? I would imagine some engineering stock might but I'd absolutely love to hear about anything that uses DC into platform 6 then switches to AC (or other way around if going the other way).

The only thing I’ve known it used for recently has been for engineering trains and machines working on possessions on the DCs entering and leaving the blocks normally in the small hours. It’s pretty infrequent though a handful of days per year and most frequently in conjunction with the blockades the last few summers. Never say never but I don’t know of any times in the last few years that it’s been used for engineering trains working on the main lines entering from the DCs and the same applied to any ECS moves in either direction. Regarding the third rail towards P6 it is live as a default and is very often isolated as part of overnight possessions on the fast lines. It’s an interesting question though I’d be curious to hear of any other times it’s been put to use in recent times other than the above or any such proposals for its use

 

[Taunton]

The connection used to be used to get last trains from the DC Line onto the main tracks, change current, then run nonstop ECS back to their depot.

 

[Tilting007]

And in Silverlink days to shunt into the sidings that are now removed at Watford..
The meant onto the down fast, change ends and then onto the sidings or through the washer.

 

[800001]

Didn’t the sleepers many years ago use it to access the DC lines when there was Watford Crash at the crossovers?

 

[12LDA28C]

Didn’t the sleepers many years ago use it to access the DC lines when there was Watford Crash at the crossovers?

Only on one night, yes. 1S25 and 1S26 were both diesel-hauled via the DC then on to Crewe. Here's 47525 on 1S25 at Watford P6 on 11th August 1996 having arrived from the DC lines. There was no connection from the Up Fast to the DC though, so AFAIK only the northbound sleepers were diverted this way.

 

[800001]

Only on one night, yes. 1S25 and 1S26 were both diesel-hauled via the DC then on to Crewe. Here's 47525 on 1S25 at Watford P6 on 11th August 1996 having arrived from the DC lines. There was no connection from the Up Fast to the DC though, so AFAIK only the northbound sleepers were diverted this way.

View attachment 168023

Thanks for sharing that.

 

[12LDA28C]

Thanks for sharing that.

No worries. I myself was in the lounge car on 1S26 and remember the ride through Watford High Street as being particularly 'lively'!

 

[A S Leib]

When was the last time anything went from Headstone Lane or north to Kilburn Park or south, or onto e.g. the Jubilee line?

 

[800001]

No worries. I myself was in the lounge car on 1S26 and remember the ride through Watford High Street as being particularly 'lively'!

Wonder how many people have redlined the connection from DC to WCML.

 

[12LDA28C]

Wonder how many people have redlined the connection from DC to WCML.

It's been pretty rare for passenger trains, especially on anything loco-hauled for a long time now.

 

[Egg Centric]

Only on one night, yes. 1S25 and 1S26 were both diesel-hauled via the DC then on to Crewe. Here's 47525 on 1S25 at Watford P6 on 11th August 1996 having arrived from the DC lines. There was no connection from the Up Fast to the DC though, so AFAIK only the northbound sleepers were diverted this way.

View attachment 168023

I don't know about 1996 but there is certainly a connection from up fast to down fast just north of Watford Junction these days. If it were there then they could have used it.

 

[philthetube]

clip here from 1993 125 through Watford high street.

 

[Springs Branch]

The connection used to be used to get last trains from the DC Line onto the main tracks, change current, then run nonstop ECS back to their depot.

And in Silverlink days to shunt into the sidings that are now removed at Watford.. The meant onto the down fast, change ends and then onto the sidings or through the washer.

Anyone know when the short bit of third rail was installed on the Down Fast at WFJ?

Presumably it went in around the time that Class 313s took over operation of the Watford DC & Croxley Green depot closed (mid-1985)?

I wonder if the connection was ever used early or late in the day to shunt ECS between the DC-side sidings and the St Albans platform after electrification of the Abbey line & introduction of 313s on that branch (1988 onwards)? I suspect unlikely on a regular basis - probably too much of a faff compared to just running the empty 313 on the WCML Slow Lines.

It's been pretty rare for passenger trains, especially on anything loco-hauled for a long time now.

I remember a discussion on one of the forums (perhaps RUK, maybe RM Web) about a long-standing BR-era Euston to Bletchley staff train, which ran in the small hours (03:50 ex-Euston springs to mind). The service was advertised to the public as far as Watford Jn., with booked calls at Wembley Central and Harrow & W.

Normal haulage was a Class 81-85 Roarer (with load 3x Mk.1 - and reportedly capable of spectacular acceleration as a result). But if OHLE power was off and the main lines blocked for overnight engineering work, on rare occasions the train would be diesel-hauled along the DC lines, rejoining the WCML at Watford platform 6. If you had the correct gen that this was on the cards, you could have legitimately red-lined the connection that way.

 

[The Chimaera]

I don't know about 1996 but there is certainly a connection from up fast to down fast just north of Watford Junction these days. If it were there then they could have used it.

That crossover was only installed in the last couple of years with the rebuilding of Watford North Jn.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

In my day- there were odd moves of empty 313's off the down fast at Watford , right across the layout to the headshunt adjacent to the up slow , and then change ends and proceed with great care (not all lines wired) into the yard. One single GPL gave that route, but for obvious reasons it had to be used with care and scanning the horizon there was not much around to prevent such a move.

Generally , the Abbey 313 was a slightly duff , often AC only unit , kept on a lightish duty to prevent possible catastrophic failures on the North or West London lines which were much more important and busy for traffic.

In dire shortages of 313 days , this might be reconsidered and put the unit on the Watford - Euston DC line , there were a couple of diagrams with a bit less stress , and BY could usually find a 321 for the branch.

 

[Bald Rick]

I certainly remember seeing a 313 do the move off the DC, in daylight, while I was waiting for a train to Birmingham. Probably late 90s, which means it was almost certainly following a meeting with @ChiefPlanner at Melton House Watford!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I certainly remember seeing a 313 do the move off the DC, in daylight, while I was waiting for a train to Birmingham. Probably late 90s, which means it was almost certainly following a meeting with @ChiefPlanner at Melton House Watford!

Watford PSB would have it under their watch from the window , and they were very good at regulating. Impressively so when things were going wrong.....

 

[Taunton]

I remember a discussion on one of the forums (perhaps RUK, maybe RM Web) about a long-standing BR-era Euston to Bletchley staff train, which ran in the small hours (03:50 ex-Euston springs to mind). The service was advertised to the public as far as Watford Jn., with booked calls at Wembley Central and Harrow & W.

Normal haulage was a Class 81-85 Roarer (with load 3x Mk.1 - and reportedly capable of spectacular acceleration as a result). But if OHLE power was off and the main lines blocked for overnight engineering work, on rare occasions the train would be diesel-hauled along the DC lines, rejoining the WCML at Watford platform 6. If you had the correct gen that this was on the cards, you could have legitimately red-lined the connection that way.

Rather than diesel-hauled, if sent along the DC line was this provided by one of the Bletchley dmus which did various turns, including the St Albans branch, in those times? I seem to recollect reading something about such an operation.

 

[DaventryRabbit]

Wonder how many people have redlined the connection from DC to WCML.

I have. On board the excellent Pathfinder Silverlink Swansong 2 Tour in November 2007. (Euston - Watford via DC then North to Tring turnback Platform to reverse)

 

[Springs Branch]

Rather than diesel-hauled, if sent along the DC line was this provided by one of the Bletchley dmus which did various turns, including the St Albans branch, in those times? I seem to recollect reading something about such an operation.

Although I mentioned the 03:50 as being a Staff Train, it seems from old WTTs that the train also carried newspapers and parcels for stations along the southern WCML (must have been the last newspaper departure of the night). It was booked for quite long station stops at places like Watford Jn (8½ mins), Hemel Hempstead (14 mins), Berkhamsted (4 mins) and Leighton Buzzard (2½ mins), and was formed of BSK+BG+BG. Probably wouldn't have had space in a DMU for all the newspaper bundles and parcels.

Having said that, there were other staff trains running between Euston and Watford in the early hours. These were booked for a DMU full time - not just during disruption - and these were highly likely BY's diesel unit off the St Albans branch. This would have made them easy candidates for DC Line diversions when necessary, or just handy to keeping running on the main lines if some of the the fizzy knitting was switched off during the night.

For example, in 1977 there was 2A00 01:00 Watford Jn - Euston DMU (unadvertised), returning as 2A01 01:49 Euston - Watford (also unadvertised)
Also a 2A03 02:40 Euston - Bletchley (unadvertised EMU, which had arrived with the last southbound 310, the 00:15 ex-New Street).

Several of these late night runs were booked for unadvertised (to the public) calls at Queen's Park main line platforms - but that's OT for a thread about the connection at Watford Jn.