Liverpool Lime St remodelling

[Skie]

Another new feature I noticed this week was a couple of substantial metal ladders fixed to the cutting walls on the route up to Edge Hill.
Maybe these are for emergency use or easier engineering access.

Those are cable ladders and not climbing ladders (hence them having "DO NOT CLIMB" plastered all over them!) One of the changes they are making to the trackside equipment is re-locating the cabinets topside so maintenance can be done without needing to go trackside, hence the need for regular ladders to run the cables up and out of the cutting.

 

[nw-sparks]

Mystified as I am why the north shed must lose a platform under remodelling (bearing in mind that the elimination of defunct carriage roads will presumably provide a lot of space to play with, and even taking into account the curvature of the rracks leading into it), I would have thought that the new, extra-wide platform 1 could most sensibly be used for Transpennine services via the Chat Moss and (when Glasgow services begin) Wigan lines. The sheddy bits alongside could then be repurposed as new waiting rooms and retail units.

Space in the shed is not the problem, it's space in the throat, I think.

The platform 1/2 (new numbers) island will extend right up to the tunnel face (The rat-hole) in order to get more length.

 

[notlob.divad]

Mystified as I am why the north shed must lose a platform under remodelling (bearing in mind that the elimination of defunct carriage roads will presumably provide a lot of space to play with, and even taking into account the curvature of the rracks leading into it), I would have thought that the new, extra-wide platform 1 could most sensibly be used for Transpennine services via the Chat Moss and (when Glasgow services begin) Wigan lines. The sheddy bits alongside could then be repurposed as new waiting rooms and retail units.

The loss of (old) Platform 1, is because of the extension to (old) platform 2 and 3. The track serving Platform 1 would have to join part way along platform 2, meaning that if a train is taking up the whole length of 2, a train would not be able to leave or arrive from Platform 1. Someone must have done an assessment showing that the limited operational flexibility this option may allow, would not be worth the extra cost in track signalling and interlocking complexity.

 

[notlob.divad]

Are there plans for the empty platform space once 1 goes?

I did read that they where going to try and remove the modern surfacing and take it down to the original block paving platform underneath as a heritage project. Not sure how much truth there is in that.

 

[B&I]

The loss of (old) Platform 1, is because of the extension to (old) platform 2 and 3. The track serving Platform 1 would have to join part way along platform 2, meaning that if a train is taking up the whole length of 2, a train would not be able to leave or arrive from Platform 1. Someone must have done an assessment showing that the limited operational flexibility this option may allow, would not be worth the extra cost in track signalling and interlocking complexity.

Well, let's hope so. Some disappointment is inescapable that so much disruption will lead to a net increase in platforms of only 1, and a net increase in train capacity of only 3 per hour. But maybe there's only so much can be done with the site, and we will have to await the diversion of Lime Street's local trains into the Merseyrail network before any more dramatic improvements are possible.

 

[driver_m]

Well, let's hope so. Some disappointment is inescapable that so much disruption will lead to a net increase in platforms of only 1, and a net increase in train capacity of only 3 per hour. But maybe there's only so much can be done with the site, and we will have to await the diversion of Lime Street's local trains into the Merseyrail network before any more dramatic improvements are possible.

You could add another two platforms and it wouldn't make a jot of difference. The throat is too constricted. Needed to be fully bi directional and the new layout doesn't appear to have that. Ideally, they'll get the locals down the Wapping Tunnel at some point onto Merseyrail and concentrate Lime St on being a medium and Long Distance station.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

They've made a big mess of Platform 6 in the last couple of days.
Including lifting the old siding between P6 and P5.
https://twitter.com/networkrail

From the project description, signalling Edge Hill to Winsford is being upgraded in this blockade ready for recontrol to Manchester ROC in 2018.

 

[driver_m]

They've made a big mess of Platform 6 in the last couple of days.
Including lifting the old siding between P6 and P5.
https://twitter.com/networkrail

From the project description, signalling Edge Hill to Winsford is being upgraded in this blockade ready for recontrol to Manchester ROC in 2018.

Definitely not 16 miles distance between winsford and edge hill. Must be a typo as that's the distance to weaver jn. The signalling will fringe to Winsford box.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I did read that they where going to try and remove the modern surfacing and take it down to the original block paving platform underneath as a heritage project. Not sure how much truth there is in that.

The current Platform 1 is host to Lime Street's on-train catering supply depot (with attendant "tug" traffic) and Northern's traincrew depot. Any surface will have to take account of those facilities: I'm not sure that a "heritage" surface fits the bill.

 

[fowler9]

Had my first arrival in to Lime Streets new platform 8 on an East Midlands service after work today. Had my first departure about an hour later to West Allerton on a Northern Service on my way home. Not really one for ticking off new track or what have you but it was quite novel.

 

[takno]

The current Platform 1 is host to Lime Street's on-train catering supply depot (with attendant "tug" traffic) and Northern's traincrew depot. Any surface will have to take account of those facilities: I'm not sure that a "heritage" surface fits the bill.

http://northgate.liverpool.gov.uk/D...rview.aspx?type=MVMPRD_DC_PLANAPP&key=1017081
is the application. The Lime St platforms planning statement.pdf gives a great deal of detail on what York-stone paving is currently buried under the modern surfaces, and what they propose to do with it. It's a common enough external paving material albeit an absolute terror to walk on when it's icy. I would have thought with a non-slip coating on it's probably alright for low-traffic areas that aren't platform edges. Doubt it would cause too many issues for tugs.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

http://northgate.liverpool.gov.uk/D...rview.aspx?type=MVMPRD_DC_PLANAPP&key=1017081
is the application. The Lime St platforms planning statement.pdf gives a great deal of detail on what York-stone paving is currently buried under the modern surfaces, and what they propose to do with it. It's a common enough external paving material albeit an absolute terror to walk on when it's icy. I would have thought with a non-slip coating on it's probably alright for low-traffic areas that aren't platform edges. Doubt it would cause too many issues for tugs.

Having read the platforms planning statement it seems to me unlikely that much of the Yorkstone will in fact end up in public view and it's all but ruled out as a surface for the soon to be redundant (current) Platform 1. Ultimately, in order to comply with the Listed Building status, I expect most of it will be stacked and stored in a segregated area out of public sight; if that seems a great shame then do please read the aforementioned document to understand the difficulties involved.

 

[PDG1949]

Phil Wieland has published a nice set of current Lime Street work photos on his site at http://nw-sparks.blogspot.co.uk/

 

[DJH1971]

I might of kind of mentioned this before but as for the TPE services from Liverpool via Manchester Victoria are concerned, are there still plans for some of these services to call at St Helens Junction?

 

[notlob.divad]

I might of kind of mentioned this before but as for the TPE services from Liverpool via Manchester Victoria are concerned, are there still plans for some of these services to call at St Helens Junction?

Point 3.4.4 of http://moderngov.merseytravel.uk.ne... NORTHERN MAY 2018 TIMETABLE CONSULTATION.pdf is the latest I have seen on this matter.

3.4.4 The Liverpool – Newcastle service is proposed to call at Newton-le-Willows and the Liverpool – Scarborough service at either St Helens Junction or Lea Green. It should be noted that the TPE TSR specifies 1tph to call at St Helens Junction, but that since the specification was written there has been significant new development around Lea Green station, which also has more frequent bus links to St Helens town centre and better highway access than St Helens Junction. Annual usage of Lea Green in 2015/16 was 439,500, compared with 385,966 at St Helens Junction (source: Office of Rail and Road). Recognising this, TPE has offered the option for services to call at Lea Green rather than St Helens Junction if this is preferable for stakeholders and to facilitate the necessary TSR change.

 

[DJH1971]

Point 3.4.4 of http://moderngov.merseytravel.uk.net/documents/s20571/TRANSPENNINE EXPRESS AND NORTHERN MAY 2018 TIMETABLE CONSULTATION.pdf is the latest I have seen on this matter.

Many thanks

Thought it went a bit quiet

 

[nw-sparks]

I might of kind of mentioned this before but as for the TPE services from Liverpool via Manchester Victoria are concerned, are there still plans for some of these services to call at St Helens Junction?

According to the current timetable database, the xx56 Lime Street to Scarborough stops at Lea Green, and the xx.25 Lime Street to Newcastle stops at Newton-le-Willows.

(Obviously, this is provisional this far in advance.)

 

[IanXC]

Can I remind members that this thread is for discussion of the committed remodelling of Liverpool Lime Street. Ideas for further work on the station, changes to services at Crewe, the Walsall to Wolverhampton stopper, etc etc, are Off topic!

I have moved some discussion to this new thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/service-changes-at-liverpool-wmr-long-distance.159041/

If you wish to discuss matters not relating to either topic please check for an alternative thread already in use, or create a new one.

 

[Polarbear]

I seem to recall that Lime Street was to be closed for at least part of the Easter holidays to facilitate some of the work that's being done? I know Network rail are due to release more details of the next steps on the project during January, but can anyone shed any light on whether there are plans for a closure at the end of March?

There seems to be something going on as the fast Liverpool - Manchester TPE services don't seem to be available for booking tickets, at least on 31 March.

 

[driver_m]

30 July sees the Resignalling of the Edge Hill and Lime St Boxes to Manchester ROC. (From the latest weekly ops notices)

 

[Polarbear]

Hmmm...the Network Rail website said that information in respect of the next phase of the work at Lime Street would be published in January

I'm a bit limited as regards Internet access at the moment, but I did look early this afternoon & the NR site was still giving that message - with no update in sight.

It'll be February in just over 2 hours...

 

[M28361M]

Some info on Lime Street closures this summer was published on the Liverpool Echo website this afternoon. Not sure how much of this is new information, but it does give dates for the works (June 2 to July 29). https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/liverpool-lime-street-closed-again-14234718

Liverpool Lime Street station will see another EIGHT WEEKS of closures later this year for more rebuilding work.

The station saw three weeks of full and partial closures last year so engineers could build two new platforms and upgrade the tracks.

But commuters will face weeks more disruption in June and July when the station will close either in full or in part.

Full details of the closures are still being worked out. Details of the line closures are expected to be revealed in March to give commuters time to plan.

But Network Rail says Liverpool will STILL be open for business as it carries out “the biggest upgrade of the station since the 19th century”.

Once the refurbishment is complete, the station will be able to handle another three services per hour, including direct services to Scotland.

Network Rail confirmed to the ECHO that the next Lime Street work would be carried out from June 2 to July 29.

As with the first closure in September and October, many services will be diverted to start and end at Liverpool South Parkway. Passengers can use Merseyrail services to get to and from the city centre.

Lime Street’s concourse will stay open throughout the works, as will the Merseyrail underground station.

This summer’s work will see engineers remodel and lengthen the station’s platforms so they can take longer trains. Signalling upgrades will also be carried out.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Rail seems to think Weaver Jn-Liverpool will be resignalled in 3 stages in 2018.
First should be Halton Jn, Runcorn and Ditton Jn. This should include the new connection for the Halton Curve.
That will be followed by Lime St and Edge Hill, and finally Speke and Allerton.
Presumably the summer Lime St station closures are part of the second stage of resignalling.

 

[driver_m]

It is in 3 stages. I could have told them that. They just needed to look on here for one!

 

[B&I]

Does anyone have any firm idea yet when the summer closures of Lime Street are going to be ? Have searched through the Network Rail site without success. Was hoping to take my holidays (in an attempt to avoid having to get up about an hour earlier to travel anywhere for work I'd usually get to from Lime Street) while the closures were on.

 

[snowball]

Post #442 has alleged dates.

 

[Polarbear]

Aside from a personal interest, I'm also keen to know the detailed plans for the next stage of the work, as where I work, we travel quite often to customers based in London. Not planning meetings when Lime Street is closed seems like a sensible thing to do!

 

[B&I]

Post #442 has alleged dates.

Thanks, but I was rather hoping someone had some more reliable source than the Echo. Even by the standards of most local rags it is woeful these days.

 

[driver_m]

Aside from a personal interest, I'm also keen to know the detailed plans for the next stage of the work, as where I work, we travel quite often to customers based in London. Not planning meetings when Lime Street is closed seems like a sensible thing to do!

It shouldn't really be an issue, Liverpool South Parkway is due to be used again as the terminating point, and then just catch the Merseyrail straight into the city centre.

 

[fowler9]

Closures are going to be between 02/06 and 29/07. There isn't going to be much detail before March. That is what I understand.