Liverpool Lime Street to York via Calder Valley Line

[zac embleton]

when was this service withdrawn?

 

[Bevan Price]

when was this service withdrawn?

About 1970, I think, but would have to check old timetables to confirm the date.

 

[MDB1images]

Used to be stoppers that ran via Bradford Interchange that ran into the early 90's with Class 158s from York to Liverpool Lime Street.
Last one of the day was a Leeds crew York to Leeds then a Liverpool Lime Street driver and Man Vic guard to Liverpool.

 

[30907]

Do you mean services running via Halifax and Leeds, or services over the classic route via Wakefield Kirkgate (originally the L&Y route from Exchange not Lime Street)?

 

[Statto]

Used to be stoppers that ran via Bradford Interchange that ran into the early 90's with Class 158s from York to Liverpool Lime Street.
Last one of the day was a Leeds crew York to Leeds then a Liverpool Lime Street driver and Man Vic guard to Liverpool.

I remember the 155s in Metro livery on the through stopper Liverpool-Leeds via Halifax & Bradford, don't remember 158s on the Calder Valley stopper to Liverpool

 

[Taunton]

The services described above with modern stock are one thing, but back until about 1970 there were services every 2 hours from Liverpool Exchange (not Lime Street) to Wigan, Manchester Victoria, Halifax, and although most of these then went to Leeds, one or two a day went to Wakefield and on to York. It was this service that the Birmingham RCW 3-car "Calder Valley" ubits had been built for, some of the last dmus of that era constructed, in the early 1960s. This was the old pre-grouping L&Y steam service route. It was a bit tedious compared with Lime Street through Manchester Exchange and Leeds.

 

[Bevan Price]

Having now checked some old timetables, I note that the service had been in continuing decline for several years. By the May 1969 timetable, Liverpool Exchange had only one daily through service to the Calder Valley line (08:30 SX to Leeds), with nothing in the other direction.

Also by May 1969, there were (SX) just 3 trains from Manchester Victoria to Wakefield Kirkgate & York (04:25, 10:15 and 17:10). In addition there were a few "shuttle" services from Sowerby Bridgeat 08:10 & 20:12 to York; 10:12, 12:12, 16:42 & 21:23 to Wakefield only.

The reverse direction was marginally better, with 4 trains from York to Manchester Victoria at 02:10 (via Halifax, reverse), 07:57, 14:07 & 1924). Both "overnight" services had some long station stops and may have operated mainly to carry parcels or newpapers.

Back in steam days, there had even been a Liverpool Exchange - Newcastle service via Wakefield & York (one each way.)

These all ceased from 5 January 1970 when Brighouse & Horbury stations were closed.

 

[Welshman]

The services described above with modern stock are one thing, but back until about 1970 there were services every 2 hours from Liverpool Exchange (not Lime Street) to Wigan, Manchester Victoria, Halifax, and although most of these then went to Leeds, one or two a day went to Wakefield and on to York. It was this service that the Birmingham RCW 3-car "Calder Valley" ubits had been built for, some of the last dmus of that era constructed, in the early 1960s. This was the old pre-grouping L&Y steam service route. It was a bit tedious compared with Lime Street through Manchester Exchange and Leeds.

For operating convenience, when the dieselised Calder Valley service was introduced in 1962, the timetable was formed by extending some of the existing Harrogate-Leeds Central-Bradford Exchange services[worked originally by Derby Lightweights and then Met.Cam. units], thus creating a through Harrogate-Liverpool service with 2 reversals - Leeds and Bradford!

Services from Leeds at 9.06am, 1.06pm, 3.06pm & 5.06pm started back at Harrogate and went through to Liverpool. In the other direction, departures from Liverpool at 8.30am, 10.30am & 12.30pm went through to Harrogate.
It was always a surprise to find a dmu marked "Harrogate" amongst the local electrics to Ormskirk and Southport in Exchange station! I wonder if many travelled all the way?

 

[46223]

Back in steam days, there had even been a Liverpool Exchange - Newcastle service via Wakefield & York (one each way.)

10-30am from Exchange and always seemed to be worked one of four Bank Hall locos. Jubilees 45698, 45717, 45719 and Patriot 45517. I think locos were changed at York but could be wrong. Didn't this train have a restaurant car in the formation?

 

[Springs Branch]

10-30am from Exchange and always seemed to be worked one of four Bank Hall locos. Jubilees 45698, 45717, 45719 and Patriot 45517. I think locos were changed at York but could be wrong. Didn't this train have a restaurant car in the formation?

In the 1950 timetable, the train ran Monday to Saturday as:

• 10.25am Liverpool Exchange - Newcastle arr 4.09pm FX, 4.20pm FO
• 5.00pm Newcastle - Liverpool Exchange arr 10.43pm

And advertised with Restaurant Car in both directions

 

[Bevan Price]

10-30am from Exchange and always seemed to be worked one of four Bank Hall locos. Jubilees 45698, 45717, 45719 and Patriot 45517. I think locos were changed at York but could be wrong. Didn't this train have a restaurant car in the formation?

Yes - LMR/LMSR locos did not normally work north of York on passenger services. An "Eastern" (ER/NER) loco would be normal between York & Newcastle, possibly a V2, B1 or B16 being most likely.

(Added in edit). Note that the northbound Newcastle service ran via Stockton & Sunderland, but the southbound service was via Durham. In some years, there were summer extra services:
10:00 Liverpool Exchange - Newcastle, also via Sunderland, with Manchester Victoria as the only stop between Liverpool & Wakefield.

On FO, a York - Manchester service was extended at both ends to form a 16:10 Sunderland - Liverpool Exchange (1959 timetable).
In 1957, there was also a 18:25 (FO) Hull - Goole - Wakefield - Liverpool Exchange service.
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(On the Liverpool Lime Street - Newcastle steam services, locos were changed at Leeds. )

 

[Springs Branch]

when was this service withdrawn?

I'm not sure if we ever resolved whether the OP was asking about services from Liverpool Exchange or more recent services from Lime St, but hey-ho, any excuse for a browse through the old timetables.....

Some notes on the demise of the Liverpool Exchange / Yorkshire trains:-

• By the late 1960s, the 2-hourly extensions of the Calder Valley DMUs from Manchester Vic to Liverpool Exchange all ran to/from Leeds.
• Most ran express between Manchester Vic & Liverpool Exchange calling only at Wigan Wallgate (some very handy fast trips to Manchester & Liverpool for Wigan punters if you were lucky to be travelling at the right time).
• Most of these trains ceased on Saturday 8 June 1968. The less frequent Sunday services were also withdrawn on Sunday 9 June 1968.
• What remained was the solitary 0830 Liverpool Exchange to Leeds (with no return working) which continued for another year until May 1969.
• Even before 1968, the 0830 departure from Liverpool had been unusual in skipping Wigan Wallgate and running via the Westwood Park Loop (direct line Pemberton to Hindley).
• The 0830 ex Liverpool was the only one of these train to stop at Sandhills, where it was advertised as "u" - pick up only. Presumably this stop was to give a convenient connection for old-school businessmen travelling in from better suburbs like Formby or Crosby and travelling to appointments in Manchester, Bradford or Leeds. This seems like a real steam-age hangover and I wonder how many actually did this and whether they really needed to keep the crowds of riff-raff off that train between Liverpool & Sandhills.
• As well as the Calder Valley/Liverpool Exchange trains, there was one per day which went to/from Southport.
• The single Southport/Leeds train persisted through the 1970s for a good few years after the Liverpool Exchange services had ceased. The 1978/79 timetable had a year-round (i.e. not a summer only) 1010 (SO) Leeds - Southport and 1318 (SO) Southport - Leeds, timed for a 720hp Calder Valley unit.

The album on the Wigan World website has a couple of photos of Class 110s running west of Manchester Victoria:-

1) A Liverpool Ex - Wigan W - Manchester Vic - Leeds or Harrogate service at Pemberton Junction circa 1965 from Harry Gardner at http://www.wiganworld.co.uk/album/photo.php?opt=5&id=20031 (this is intended as a "then & now" photo)

2) A Southport - Manchester Vic - Calder Valley - Leeds train at Hindley, circa 1971 from Karen Smith at http://www.wiganworld.co.uk/album/photo.php?opt=5&id=5462

 

[30907]

The 0830 off Exchange presumably lasted the extra year because it was the only train using the Westwood Park route and closure consent was pending.

 

[KevinTurvey]

With regard to the more recent operations was it 1993 the through services ended?
I think it just quietly disappeared and no one seemed to make much fuss.
Later on there used to be a Lime St - Huddersfield stopper which I assume was the 'replacement' for the above, before being cut back to just Victoria more recently.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Not just Liverpool Exchange-Wakefield-York-Newcastle.
Pre-war, the train we called the North Country Continental (Liverpool Central-Lincoln Central-Harwich) also had another portion starting from Liverpool Exchange.
This ran via Manchester Victoria and the Calder Valley to Doncaster via Shaftholme Jn, where it picked up a Newcastle portion.
Then it all merged with the GC portion coming from Liverpool via Woodhead at Lincoln, and on to Harwich.