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Liverpool-Norwich services - have these ever called at Deansgate?

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Intercity 225

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Hi,

Could someone confirm whether Liverpool-Norwich services ever called at Deansgate in timetabled service please?

I’ve got a feeling this happened on occasion during the Regional Railways era but could be mistaken.

Many Thanks
 
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Intercity 225

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Thanks for the reply.

It could well be that I just recall waiting there on a few occasions for a signal, it’s a service I travelled on a lot with my grandfather as a child during the late 80s and 90s and can vividly remember the train stopping at Piccadilly, Oxford Road and Deansgate in quick succession - can’t remember whether the doors were ever activated at Deansgate though.

If anyone could clarify whether it has ever been a timetabled stop that’d be great.
 

BucksBones

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I think I remember them calling at Deansgate too, just after Sprinterisation. Not all Norwich bound, I also remember them terminating at Ipswich, Cambridge and Stansted Airport.
 

Jamesrob637

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They nearly always "stop" at Deansgate but they never "stop" at Deansgate, if you know what I mean!
 

Ianno87

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I think I remember them calling at Deansgate too, just after Sprinterisation. Not all Norwich bound, I also remember them terminating at Ipswich, Cambridge and Stansted Airport.

When I get a mo, I'll check my May 1988 timetable to see if any of the variations such as Blackpool-Ipswich stopped.

There was definitely a morning peak one that was a stopper into Manchester (so gave the likes of Lostock a direct Ipswich train!) So entirely possible it called at Deansgate too.

However, since the hourly Liverpool-Norwich service was established, I have no recollection of it ever calling at Deansgate.
 

BucksBones

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When I get a mo, I'll check my May 1988 timetable to see if any of the variations such as Blackpool-Ipswich stopped.

There was definitely a morning peak one that was a stopper into Manchester (so gave the likes of Lostock a direct Ipswich train!) So entirely possible it called at Deansgate too.

However, since the hourly Liverpool-Norwich service was established, I have no recollection of it ever calling at Deansgate.

Ah yes, that makes sense; evidently the calling pattern was rationalised with the new hourly Norwich services. What year did they start?
 

Bevan Price

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Have not had time to look at every timetable, but in 1991, the final Norwich to Liverpool each weekday called at most stations between Manchester & Hunts Cross - including Deansgate. In the opposite direction, the first train of the day ran to Stansted, not Norwich, and called at most stations between Warrington & Manchester, but ran non-stop from Trafford Park and Oxford Road. Both had gone from the 1992/93 Winter timetable.
 

Ianno87

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So, dug out my May 1988 timetable, and there was a sole daily call in the 0730 Liverpool Lime Street-Norwich (Deansgate at 0818).

Because Liverpool was only every two hours (alternating with Blackpool) there looks to have been an infill fast working Liverpool-Oxford Road (only) on the hours it didn't extend to East Anglia. Of these, the 1727 from Oxford Rd called at Deansgate at 1729.

So there was effectively a Manchester commuter-timed stop.

Incidentally, the morning service from Blackpool (departing 0606) to Ipswich (arr 1214) I was thinking of didn't stop at Deansgate but did stop at

Layton
Poulton-le-Fylde
Kirkham & Wesham
Preston
Leyland
Chorley
Adlington (Lancs)
Blackrod
Lostock
Bolton
Salford Crescent
Manchester Oxford Road
Manchester Piccadilly
Stockport
Sheffield
Chesterfield
Alfreton & Mansfield Parkway
Nottingham
Grantham
Peterborough
Ely
Bury St Edmunds
Stowmarket
 
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Trainfan344

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Would be nice if we could get 2tph from Norwich to Manchester via Peterborough and Nottingham, with one to Liverpool and one to Blackpool. Instead we're going to end up with 1tph to Nottingham and another change.
 

JonathanH

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Would be nice if we could get 2tph from Norwich to Manchester via Peterborough and Nottingham, with one to Liverpool and one to Blackpool. Instead we're going to end up with 1tph to Nottingham and another change.

It's all about whether it is better to link up services or run them through on long distance schedules. Its deemed better to run Blackpool North to Manchester Airport than through to Sheffield, Nottingham, Peterborough and Norwich. The route through Bolton is electrified, the Hope Valley line clearly isn't.
 

Ianno87

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It's all about whether it is better to link up services or run them through on long distance schedules. Its deemed better to run Blackpool North to Manchester Airport than through to Sheffield, Nottingham, Peterborough and Norwich. The route through Bolton is electrified, the Hope Valley line clearly isn't.

There just isn't rip roaring demand from Bolton/Preston/Blackpool to Sheffield/Nottingham/etc for the operational challenge such a through train would present.

More Bolton etc. passengers benefit far more from a direct Manchester Airport connection than they would bound for Nottingham etc. - it's useful for far more people day-to-day.

I say that as somebody born in Bolton but now living in Cambridge...flash back 31 years and there were several direct trains a day between the two!
 

randyrippley

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Hi,

Could someone confirm whether Liverpool-Norwich services ever called at Deansgate in timetabled service please?

I’ve got a feeling this happened on occasion during the Regional Railways era but could be mistaken.

Many Thanks

When the 156 fleet was first introduced, then yes some (at least) stopped there.
But as far as I remember the service was alternately Liverpool/Blackpool/Barrow - Ipswich/Harwich, not Norwich
 
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When the 156 fleet was first introduced, then yes some (at least) stopped there.
But as far as I remember the service was alternately Liverpool/Blackpool/Barrow - Ipswich/Harwich, not Norwich

As I recall, when this group of services was introduced with class 156s, the Liverpool services went via Derby instead of the Erewash Valley, and terminated at Norwich (I've got a photo of a 156 at Derby with Liverpool on its blind)

Wasn't the Harwich service an oddball, formed by joining together a 158 from the north west with another from Birmingham, and didn't it have a name (Britannia Boat Train?)?

BR used to close the Erewash Valley route for engineering works for a period - I think it was summer Sundays - and then the route via Ambergate for the other Sundays of the year; I recall travelling of a 158 between Drby and Liverpool one Sunday and I'm sure it stopped at Deansgate, but I can't recall if it was either a signal or a service stop.

Wasn't there also a spell when the Norwich terminating services were extended further into East Anglia? I recall seeing a class 158 pass the Shire Horse Centre whilst holidaying at Sheringham with my children (that would be early 1990s)
 

dk1

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When the 156 fleet was first introduced, then yes some (at least) stopped there.
But as far as I remember the service was alternately Liverpool/Blackpool/Barrow - Ipswich/Harwich, not Norwich
No, Norwich was served every two hours from the North West when the Express network was launched in May 1988. The other hour they went to Ipswich or Cambridge. The Birmingham-East Anglia went two hourly to Norwich to make up the hourly service from Peterborough. Again Ipswich/Cambridge shared the other hour which meant both these locations ended up with an ad-hoc service with larger gaps. Norwich was always better served.
 

dk1

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As I recall, when this group of services was introduced with class 156s, the Liverpool services went via Derby instead of the Erewash Valley, and terminated at Norwich (I've got a photo of a 156 at Derby with Liverpool on its blind)

Wasn't there also a spell when the Norwich terminating services were extended further into East Anglia? I recall seeing a class 158 pass the Shire Horse Centre whilst holidaying at Sheringham with my children (that would be early 1990s)
I think you'll find the only services that served Derby on the Norwich route where those aimed at business travel & avoided Sheffield via the curve at Dore. This allowed it to stay in path East of Nortingham with the extra time taken to go via Derby. An extra service ran from Nottingham to Manchester at roughly the same time via Sheffield.

Lowestoft & Yarmouth where served daily from the outset of these trains but Sheringham joined later but I seem to recall it was only in one direction as the 06:30 Sheringham-Birmingham.
 

dk1

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Update on the above. The December 1990 GBTT shows an 06:20 Sheringham-Birmingham AND the 20:50 Norwich-Sheringham originated Liverpool at 14:56. At the same time the 15:56 avoided Sheffield continuing to Cambridge which was an hour later than 1988 when it went to Lowestoft via this route. Sheffield was served by the 15:25 Preston-Nottingham.
 

Intercity 225

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Great to know that my memory is working correctly :lol:

Also really interesting to read about the other similar routes that used to exist, the likelihood is that sometimes the services I travelled on would have continued to elsewhere other than Norwich - I predominately travelled on stretches between Nottingham and Liverpool at the time.

Thank you to everyone that’s contributed.
 
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