Liverpool St James - reopening - new name will be Liverpool Baltic

[John Luxton]

Plans to reopen the former Liverpool St James' Station closed in 1917 are being progressed by Merseyrail.

The following article has appeared in today's Liverpool Echo.

Striking plans show how new Baltic Triangle Merseyrail station could look - Liverpool Echo

It has been a long-held ambition to create a new station that serves the Baltic area - one of the fastest growing parts of Liverpool.

The Baltic, which lies on the southern edge of the city centre, has undergone a remarkable transformation over the past 15 years, changing from a collection of derelict docklands warehouses to a thriving social, commercial and creative hub.

It is now home to a diverse range of over 350 creative and digital industries, with over 1,000 apartments built since 2012 and plans for at least 3,000 more, alongside the various popular creative and leisure facilities that have opened.

The station also requires a new name - and the Liverpool City Region wants people to vote for their favourite of a selection of naming options.

Apparently to avoid confusion with James Street they will not be using the original name St James' but are looking for a new one.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I think that Liverpool Baltic would be best

 

[John Luxton]

I think that Liverpool Baltic would be best

It is within walking distance and view of the Cathedral - a popular visitor attraction - why not just Liverpool Cathedral or simpler "Cathedral"

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think that Liverpool Baltic would be best

I think "Baltic Triangle".

As a secondary city centre station it doesn't need a prefix (Moorfields and James St don't), and "Baltic" sounds like an adjective, it needs the noun after it to sound right. Also, "Baltic Triangle" is a known name for the area - even the survey refers to that being the area it is in.

I think a massive trick has been missed here.

 

[gordonthemoron]

It is within walking distance and view of the Cathedral - a popular visitor attraction - why not just Liverpool Cathedral or simpler "Cathedral"

Because it's up a steep hill?

 

[John Luxton]

Because it's up a steep hill?

Not that steep a hill. Virtually no bus services directly pass the cathedral is it is. Those that do still require people to walk either up or down the hill.

 

[Djgr]

Baltic Triangle is a fairly obvious front runner, especially given the development of the area as a well known cultural quarter.

(PS Can we have a competition to ditch the dreadful Headbolt Lane please)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Baltic Triangle is a fairly obvious front runner, especially given the development of the area as a well known cultural quarter.

Yet Baltic Triangle isn't one of the options - the rather rubbish "Liverpool Baltic" is, but I can't bring myself to vote for that as it is missing a noun and has a pointless prefix. The area is called "the Baltic Triangle", not "Baltic".

I get the feeling that someone at Merseytravel is pushing for "Liverpool Parliament Street" as it's the only one of the three options given that doesn't sound really awful and isn't potentially misleading.

(PS Can we have a competition to ditch the dreadful Headbolt Lane please)

I actually quite like that because it's a nod to Kirkby's mechanical engineering and manufacturing heritage (in so much that 1960s overspill has heritage).

 

[Fokx]

It is within walking distance and view of the Cathedral - a popular visitor attraction - why not just Liverpool Cathedral or simpler "Cathedral"

Because it's up a steep hill?

Not to mention there’s two of them

 

[Djgr]

Yet Baltic Triangle isn't one of the options - the rather rubbish "Liverpool Baltic" is, but I can't bring myself to vote for that as it is missing a noun and has a pointless prefix. The area is called "the Baltic Triangle", not "Baltic".

I get the feeling that someone at Merseytravel is pushing for "Liverpool Parliament Street" as it's the only one of the three options given that doesn't sound really awful and isn't potentially misleading.



I actually quite like that because it's a nod to Kirkby's mechanical engineering and manufacturing heritage (in so much that 1960s overspill has heritage).

Perhaps it is thought that Baltic will expand from its triangular shape!

Well perhaps if that is where Headbolt Lane comes from. Is it a well known thoroughfare in the district? Like Penny Lane? Or Champs-Elysees?

I, for one, have never heard of it and would argue that in general there are benefits in stations having names that are better at informing people where they are located.

 

[John Luxton]

Not to mention there’s two of them

Very true but one is Liverpool Cathedral the other the Metropolitan Cathedral.

 

[geoffk]

Perhaps it's James Street that needs to be renamed - I don't favour Liverpool One, maybe Waterfront?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well perhaps if that is where Headbolt Lane comes from. Is it a well known thoroughfare in the district? Like Penny Lane? Or Champs-Elysees?

It's the name of a road.

I, for one, have never heard of it and would argue that in general there are benefits in stations having names that are better at informing people where they are located.

Naming "traffic source" stations after the road they are on is an entirely normal practice. I will give you that it probably needs a Kirkby prefix just so someone heading from Wigan Wallgate* to somewhere on Merseyrail has a clue where it is for changing to Merseyrail, but otherwise I can see no great issue with it. It will mostly be used by residents of Kirkby for going somewhere else, it's not a destination. So most users will know full well where it is.

* Manchester Victoria has been mentioned before, but because Kirkby via Atherton is (a) only hourly, (b) has no evening service and (c) is so grindingly slow, it only makes sense to go that way from Manchester onto Merseyrail if you are travelling to Fazakerley, Walton, Kirkdale or Sandhills. For any other Merseyrail destination, it is considerably faster to go via Liverpool Lime St, and it may even be faster at some times of day to those four, particularly if you've just missed the hourly service and a fast TPE is along soon. Thus, it might look odd on the displays at Victoria, but practically nobody will care.

Perhaps it's James Street that needs to be renamed - I don't favour Liverpool One, maybe Waterfront?

No, it's not. It's an established name that everyone knows. We just need to name this new one "Baltic Triangle" and all will be good.

 

[Glenn1969]

It's the name of a road.



Naming "traffic source" stations after the road they are on is an entirely normal practice. I will give you that it probably needs a Kirkby prefix just so someone heading from Wigan Wallgate to somewhere on Merseyrail has a clue where it is for changing to Merseyrail, but otherwise I can see no great issue with it. It will mostly be used by residents of Kirkby for going somewhere else, it's not a destination.



No, it's not. It's an established name that everyone knows. We just need to name this new one "Baltic Triangle" and all will be good.

The article says there is currently no funding for construction- is the station certain to be built? If it is I probably favour it being called Baltic Triangle

 

[Starmill]

"...Sandhills, Liverpool Baltic, Moorefields, Liverpool Central, Brunswick..." would sound rather odd.

Naming "traffic source" stations after the road they are on is an entirely normal practice.

There are of course countless examples. My favourite ones are the adjacent stations Butlers Lane and Blake Street. Where sre they? They could be anywhere. (They're in Sutton Coldfield.)

 

[Bletchleyite]

"...Sandhills, Liverpool Baltic, Moorefields, Liverpool Central, Brunswick..." would sound rather odd.

It'd sound odd because it'd be wrong as to where it is

"Sandhills, Moorfields, Liverpool Central, Baltic Triangle, Brunswick..." sounds better in two different ways

(For what it's worth, Liverpool Central is the only Merseyrail station signed with the prefix, to highlight that if you want the centre and you're not sure then that's the one you want - Lime St is just signed Lime St, or at least it always used to be)

Class 508 at Lime St showing unprefixed signage - Wikimedia Commons

 

[John Luxton]

Perhaps it's James Street that needs to be renamed - I don't favour Liverpool One, maybe Waterfront?

Changing James Street after all these years would bring about confusion to say the least!

 

[Djgr]

"...Sandhills, Liverpool Baltic, Moorefields, Liverpool Central, Brunswick..." would sound rather odd.


There are of course countless examples. My favourite ones are the adjacent stations Butlers Lane and Blake Street. Where sre they? They could be anywhere. (They're in Sutton Coldfield.)

There is a precedent set by not calling Moorfields, Liverpool Moorfields.

It is the Liverpool Metropolitan Cathedral and so two Liverpool cathedrals.

I could live with Kirkby Headbolt Lane but it still sucks.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are of course countless examples. My favourite ones are the adjacent stations Butlers Lane and Blake Street. Where sre they? They could be anywhere. (They're in Sutton Coldfield.)

They are traffic sources in residential areas, so who cares? If you live there, you know where they are. If you're visiting someone there, they know where they are and will tell you.

It's usual that local stations for local people (tm) don't have city prefixes - even in Germany!

University is probably the classic, to be fair, and probably does confuse people. But that's very much a traffic sink.

 

[Starmill]

I, for one, have never heard of it and would argue that in general there are benefits in stations having names that are better at informing people where they are located.

Really? You'd end up with even more stations called something Greenock for example. Is that actually helping anyone? What would you call Derby Road, Chester Road, Dingle Road, Kilburn High Road, North Road, Spring Road, Rectory Road, Silver Street and Parson Street?

 

[Ashley Hill]

How about a name starting with X or Z,it would help with the Alphabet Station quiz? Yes I know,I’m getting my coat!!!

 

[geoffk]

How about a name starting with X or Z,it would help with the Alphabet Station quiz? Yes I know,I’m getting my coat!!!

Glasshoughton station could have been named XScape.

 

[py_megapixel]

The problem with "University" is twofold:

• Lots of cities have universities and the name doesn't tell you that it means Birmingham
• Unlike random bits of suburbia, there are plenty of people unfamiliar with the system who will want to go to a university.

I bet a lot of people arriving at Manchester Airport have accidentally been sold tickets to University when they actually wanted Manchester Oxford Road, for example (which is the station which is actually where you'd go if you wanted the university area in Manchester)

 

[Djgr]

Really? You'd end up with even more stations called something Greenock for example. Is that actually helping anyone? What would you call Derby Road, Chester Road, Dingle Road, Kilburn High Road, North Road, Spring Road, Rectory Road, Silver Street and Parson Street?

Well yes. Using your example Kilburn High Road is far better than calling it High Road.

It's not as if there are half a dozen Kirkby stations already.

 

[Sheridan]

Yet Baltic Triangle isn't one of the options - the rather rubbish "Liverpool Baltic" is, but I can't bring myself to vote for that as it is missing a noun and has a pointless prefix. The area is called "the Baltic Triangle", not "Baltic".

I get the feeling that someone at Merseytravel is pushing for "Liverpool Parliament Street" as it's the only one of the three options given that doesn't sound really awful and isn't potentially misleading.



I actually quite like that because it's a nod to Kirkby's mechanical engineering and manufacturing heritage (in so much that 1960s overspill has heritage).

I sympathise with you from a grammatical point of view but there are plenty of examples of adjectives coming to stand alone as nouns - not least in the case of seas themselves (e.g. we regularly refer to ‘the Atlantic, the Baltic etc), and to keep on the Baltic theme itself, the Baltic Centre in Gateshead is regularly referred to as ‘the Baltic’. I think ‘Baltic’ would make a simple, short name, which still makes it clear which area of the city it serves.

Edit: but I agree there is no need for Liverpool in the station name.

 

[WY Bus Spotter]

If we're gonna name it after the Cathedral then you might as well name it 'LIPA', or 'Pilgrim Street'.

I think 'Liverpool Baltic' would be the best fit.

 

[Djgr]

The problem with "University" is twofold:

• Lots of cities have universities and the name doesn't tell you that it means Birmingham
• Unlike random bits of suburbia, there are plenty of people unfamiliar with the system who will want to go to a university.

I bet a lot of people arriving at Manchester Airport have accidentally been sold tickets to University when they actually wanted Manchester Oxford Road, for example (which is the station which is actually where you'd go if you wanted the university area in Manchester)

Mainly overseas students I would suggest, who haven't twigged a sensible fare for the journey!

 

[och aye]

Baltic Triangle seems like a sensible name for the new station. Glad to see that this reopening is moving another step forward albeit at the sadly typical glacial pace we're used to.

@D821 posted on a different thread that the names in the running from Mersey Travel that people can vote for are:

Public urged to vote on name for new station in Liverpool as new artists’ impressions are revealed!

Public urged to vote on name for new station in Liverpool as new artists’ impressions are revealed!

www.merseytravel.gov.uk

• Liverpool Baltic
• Liverpool Parliament Street
• Liverpool Riverside

Reopening Liverpool St. James

Merseytravel have given some preliminary details around their plans to re-open the old St. James railway station, which shut in 1917. They have put to a public vote what the station should called on reopening, as 'St. James' could get confused with 'James St'. The choices are: Liverpool Baltic...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Starmill]

Well yes. Using your example Kilburn High Road is far better than calling it High Road.

It's not as if there are half a dozen Kirkby stations already.

Kilburn High Road is the name of the road. So it would be Kilburn Kilburn High Road to use your nomenclature. Are you saying we should be calling it Sutton Coldfield Blake Street? Should it be called Manchester Mauldeth Road? Does Montpellier need to be called Bristol Montpellier? Or are you suggesting people might actually confuse it for a French city?

Maybe Headbolt Lane should be called East Kirkby if it satisfies your senses?

It's usual that local stations for local people (tm) don't have city prefixes - even in Germany!

There are some places where it is the way, but they usually make a very clear distinction between the city and the surrounding regions into which the suburbs spill. A tourist after the Astononical Clock is probably going to be disappointed to arrive at Praha-Zbraslav station.

 

[Westwardbound]

“Cathedrals” surely?