Liverpool Stns

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island

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Just a quick one: is James Street part of Liverpool Stns? I plan on going from London to Liverpool tomorrow and it would be helpful to go on to James Street. Ticket held is an off-peak return London Terminals to Liverpool Stns, route ANY PERMITTED.
 
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aformeruser

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Yes it is valid but the RPIs at Lime Street will try and take your ticket off you when you leave the upper level platforms.
 

Ascot

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You can use the "underground" to get to James St, Moorfields or Central (sic) from Lime St even if it is an Advance ticket to Liverpool STNS.
 

aformeruser

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even if it is an Advance ticket to Liverpool STNS.
Not necessarily. If the ticket says VWC only then it's not valid on Merseyrail but if it says VWC + Connections then it is valid on Merseyrail as long as it says Liverpool STNS.
 

calc7

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Yes it is valid but the RPIs at Lime Street will try and take your ticket off you when you leave the upper level platforms.
Yes, I've had this same problem within the last week (albeit at Manchester Victoria) and have had to politely remind the company of my rights afforded by the conditions of the ticket.
 

Ascot

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Not necessarily. If the ticket says VWC only then it's not valid on Merseyrail but if it says VWC + Connections then it is valid on Merseyrail as long as it says Liverpool STNS.
I'm 100%. I've just done it on a Route: AP LDN MID ONLY From: BIRMINGHAM STNS To: LIVERPOOL STNS*. I was advised by the gate staff and it even worked through the barriers. In all honest I was surprised when they say "Oh you don't have to walk, your ticket will let you ride the underground to James St, then just walk out and turn right."
 

scrapy

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I'm 100%. I've just done it on a Route: AP LDN MID ONLY From: BIRMINGHAM STNS To: LIVERPOOL STNS*. I was advised by the gate staff and it even worked through the barriers. In all honest I was surprised when they say "Oh you don't have to walk, your ticket will let you ride the underground to James St, then just walk out and turn right."
Whoever said that is technically incorrect, and just because it works in barriers, doesn't mean it's a valid ticket for the journey you make. If you'd encountered a Merseyrail RPI you could not have been charged a penalty fare (as you were technically off route and didn't break any penalty fare criteria) but I believe you could be charged for an anytime single for your full journey from Birmingham. You would then probably have difficulty proving an authorised person had let you travel.
 

aformeruser

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I'm 100%. I've just done it on a Route: AP LDN MID ONLY From: BIRMINGHAM STNS To: LIVERPOOL STNS*. I was advised by the gate staff and it even worked through the barriers. In all honest I was surprised when they say "Oh you don't have to walk, your ticket will let you ride the underground to James St, then just walk out and turn right."
The restrictions can easily be missed by a RPI but technically what you did wasn't valid and could have got you a penalty fare on Merseyrail.

There was a thread on here not that long ago about the barriers at St Pancras no longer accepting tickets that they had previously accepted, which some passengers thought were valid but FCC disagreed with them. It sounds like the same applies here.

I very much doubt ticket barriers are designed to read operator restrictions as for most stations it's the same set of barriers which ever operator you are using, so adding that functionality would usually be an unnecessary additional expense.
 

Ascot

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It's odd that I've had 4 different members of Merseyrail staff on 4 different occasions confirm I can do this but if you work for Merseyrail (or have some weight to this) then I better get an official response just incase you work the train I am on and I've got no "hard evidence" since I'll be forced on this route for the next few months.
 

aformeruser

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It's odd that I've had 4 different members of Merseyrail staff on 4 different occasions confirm I can do this but if you work for Merseyrail (or have some weight to this) then I better get an official response just incase you work the train I am on and I've got no "hard evidence" since I'll be forced on this route for the next few months.
Your story doesn't make sense now.

If you were planning on walking why did you head for the lower levels platforms and encountered Merseyrail RPI staff? The RPIs are the upper level are not Merseyrail staff.
 

Ascot

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Your story doesn't make sense now.

If you were planning on walking why did you head for the lower levels platforms and encountered Merseyrail RPI staff? The RPIs are the upper level are not Merseyrail staff.
There's a gentleman who works the tourist booth on the upper concourse who I originally spoke to.*1 This rang alarm bells naturally so I spoke to the Merseyrail staff on the barriers downstairs who confirmed it.*2 The following 3 times I went to the Wirral barriers and just asked the barrier staff, again noticing the APEX.

Sorry I assumed it was pretty straightforward how I described it and you could put 2 and 2 together but hopefully that will clear the scenario up.

*1 "Excuse me, what's the quickest way to walk to the Crowne Plaza?"
"Did you just arrive off the train?" "yes" "Get the underground service to James St then turn right and cross over the road"

*2 "Hi, I've been advised I can use the Wirral service to James St on this ticket?" "*looks hard* Yes that's fine, you need to change at James St for Moorfields though"

EDIT: If you genuinely work for Merseyrail though or work somewhere that you have access to the local policies (ideally higher than the RPI level I spoke to) then I fully support you and I'll have to chase this up, but if you're just generalising (no disrespect to you if you aren't) then please let us know so we all know this hasn't come from an official mouth.
 
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Solent&Wessex

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I really wouldn't pay much attention to what Merseyrail staff say.

This will be the same Merseyrail staff who:

- At Southport recently insisted a Lancashire Day Ranger wasn't valid, wouldn't believe that the map I had printed out from NRES was correct, and threatened to penalty fare me.

- Sell Off Peak Returns to Manchester from many of their stations (generally having code I5, Not Valid to Depart before 0830) at all times of the morning peak before that time.

- Give people with Merseyrail bus passes a journey itinerary showing they travel on an express train from LIV or LPY via Warrington to Manchester Piccadilly, but then sell them a NLW to MAN CDR.

And or sorts of other irregularities.

Due to the high number of these ticket irregularities cropping up, and the lack of TVMs, I can only assume the ticket office staff pay no attention to what they are actually selling at all.
 

island

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For the record I had no issues using the ticket to James Street; barrier guys at LIV weren't paying any attention.
 

dvboy

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I've had an LM Advance from LIV to WVH about 2 years ago I went to James St to buy a single to LIV, was told I could use my Advance.
 

calc7

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I've had an LM Advance from LIV to WVH about 2 years ago I went to James St to buy a single to LIV, was told I could use my Advance.
One or more of the following may apply:
  • The bloke may not have realised or cared
  • If it was "LM&Connections" for whatever reason then it is perfectly valid from LVJ anyway
  • There may be an informal agreement in place between Merseyrail and other TOCs operating to Lime Street
 
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