Liverpool Street stopped by greater Anglia for buying ticket short of full fare

[radnomuser1274]

On my way to work this morning I went to walk through the barriers at London Liverpool Street when a man scanned my ticket. All was good when an enforcement officer showed me what I thought was a police badge. He'd realised I had bought my ticket a few stops further down the line from where I actually got on. He could tell where I lived from my banking app details as I didn't have ID on me. He then went through my Trainline history and could tell I'd been buying short tickets since September (when I started my graduate job in London). He then put me under caution and read out my rights, I genuinely thought I was going to be arrested it scared the life out of me. I know I shouldn't have done it, but the trains are so expensive and I'm just waiting to get my first pay check in. Not an excuse I know.

He then tried making out that all the other journeys pre September 2024 which weren't from my home town were also short tickets purchased. I did say to him no that's not right, sometimes I get on at other stops and go other places I don't only ever get the train from my hometown to Liverpool street. He basically said they will go and backdate all my tickets which haven't been scanned which is bollocks really because if I ever get on at say Roydon (which I sometimes do) there's no barriers there to scan so will all those journeys be fined as though I took them from my hometown? He asked if I had a rail card, which I do but he didn't ask to see this. He took pictures of everything else but not my rail card. Will they be able to see if I have one from my email or name because I want to know of they will make me pay the difference or pay for a full fare without Railcard.

I panicked a bit and told the guy I can't have this on my record because of my new job, I'm happy to pay whatever it is I owe. He said providing I pay the fine when it comes through it should be fine. I definitely won't do it again, scared the life out of me. Does anyone know roughly what I'm looking at paying? Started work beginning of September, 4 days in office a week, normal fair with rail card is about £20, from station further down line its £12. There was 2 weeks where I had some spare money so I got my tickets from hometown those weeks. I don't know if I'm gonna have to pay the £8 difference on each ticket I skipped or pay the full price of a fare without a Railcard.

 

[30907]

You will have to wait for the letter to arrive from GA to see what they are asking.
The good news is that they will almost certainly be willing to offer an out of court settlement. However, you are likely to have to pay the full fare for each journey you made illegally.
If they include journeys that were perfectly legitimate, you should challenge this, and there are cases on here where the train operator has corrected the record and reduced the amount to pay.

 

[radnomuser1274]

You will have to wait for the letter to arrive from GA to see what they are asking.
The good news is that they will almost certainly be willing to offer an out of court settlement. However, you are likely to have to pay the full fare for each journey you made illegally.
If they include journeys that were perfectly legitimate, you should challenge this, and there are cases on here where the train operator has corrected the record and reduced the amount to pay.

If I challenge it and can prove I get off at other stops because I have friends/family that live there, will this count as me appealing and refusing the out of court settlement? I don't want to risk challenging if this will then lead to court. Do they have like a mitigating circumstances section to explain? Basically I need them to know I confess up to all the fairs from Cheshunt to Liverpool street since September.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

You're in a spot of bother here. Greater Anglia are entitled to procesute you in the Magistrates Court if they want to but the good news is they will normally offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with their investigation and who haven't come to their attention before.

Whay happens next is they will write to you int he next few weeks. The letter will use quite threatening wording and will ask you for your version of events before they decide how to proceed. I suggest a short, concise reply mentioniing the following points:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

It's likely that Greater Anglia will research your online ticket purchasing history and if this indicates that you have evaded paying the correct fare on previous occasions then they will want to factor the cost of these tickets into the settlement offer. If there are genuine journeys that could look suspicious then you will need to take care when you respond to their letter - things like dates and times the genuine journeys were made could be helpful - presemably they were leisure journeys at off-peak times rather than journeys made at a time when you would be travelling to work? If you've purchased railcard discounted tickets then Greater Anglia will want to be satisfield that you posess that railcard and they might ask you to provide evidence of it.

If you are offered a settlement expect to have to pay the cost of the fares evaded at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the invalid tickets you did purchsse. In adition you will need to pay an admin fee, typically around £150. You will need to be in a position to pay the settlement in full within a few days of it being offered - payment in installments isn't normally allowed.

When it arrives, post a copy of Greater Anglia's letter in this thread along with your draft reply and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you. DO redact any personal details before posting.

 

[radnomuser1274]

Is this okay for a response? I haven't received the letter yet from them but want to be ready for when it arrives.

Dear Sirs,

Firstly, I want to apologise for what I have done. I can promise it will never happen again. Getting stopped, shown a police badge, put under caution and read my rights scared the life out of me. People that know me will say I'm not a horrible person and I can say for definite that was enough experience with the law to last me a life time.

I am keen to settle the matter out of court. I am more than willing to pay any outstanding fares and the costs of administration fees.

I understand the severity of what I have done. I don't want to sound like I am making excuses but I want to explain my position. The last year I've been doing a masters course online from home. It was 50-60 hours studying a week, I had no time to work which has left me really skint. I got my job in London at the start of September after finishing my course and will admit to buying tickets from Cheshunt because it made it cheaper to get to work. It's not an excuse but I've been waiting for my paycheck. My first pay check went on paying off a huge overdraft built up over the last year and my car went bust at end of September which put be back to square one. I was waiting for Monday 4th November to get my second paycheck. If you look at my ticket history since September you can see I do pay from Sawbridgeworth when I can afford to. I have spoken to my parents about this and they are really angry with me. I should have just asked to borrow money to get to work and pay them back when I get paid.

I have had a 16-25 Railcard since 2020, my first one of 3 years came with my student Santander account which has since expired so I don't have it anymore but I do have an email with the reference number for proof - REDACTED. Before I started my job in September I purchased another one as a means to try and make it cheaper. My current rail cards reference number is REDACTED.

I want to apologise again, I have learned my lesson.

Kind regards,
REDACTED

 

[WesternLancer]

Is this okay for a response? I haven't received the letter yet from them but want to be ready for when it arrives.

Dear Sirs,

Firstly, I want to apologise for what I have done. I can promise it will never happen again. Getting stopped, shown a police badge, put under caution and read my rights scared the life out of me. People that know me will say I'm not a horrible person and I can say for definite that was enough experience with the law to last me a life time.

I am keen to settle the matter out of court. I am more than willing to pay any outstanding fares and the costs of administration fees.

I understand the severity of what I have done. I don't want to sound like I am making excuses but I want to explain my position. The last year I've been doing a masters course online from home. It was 50-60 hours studying a week, I had no time to work which has left me really skint. I got my job in London at the start of September after finishing my course and will admit to buying tickets from Cheshunt because it made it cheaper to get to work. It's not an excuse but I've been waiting for my paycheck. My first pay check went on paying off a huge overdraft built up over the last year and my car went bust at end of September which put be back to square one. I was waiting for Monday 4th November to get my second paycheck. If you look at my ticket history since September you can see I do pay from Sawbridgeworth when I can afford to. I have spoken to my parents about this and they are really angry with me. I should have just asked to borrow money to get to work and pay them back when I get paid.

I have had a 16-25 Railcard since 2020, my first one of 3 years came with my student Santander account which has since expired so I don't have it anymore but I do have an email with the reference number for proof - REDACTED. Before I started my job in September I purchased another one as a means to try and make it cheaper. My current rail cards reference number is REDACTED.

I want to apologise again, I have learned my lesson.

Kind regards,
REDACTED

needs your ref number details right at the top under the Dear Sir / Madam

Needs your 'key ask' as the last line (ie you would be grateful if they would kindly consider settling the matter without the need for court action, and you would be happy to pay any fare owed). even if you say this previously - which is fine to do you need the person reading it to be able to see at a glance what it is you want them to do, as the last thing they read.

They wont care about your overdraft or your broken down car - look at it form their point of view are these reasons for you to go shoplifting? Probably not - it's just that you thought you could get away with not paying your train fare.

And best to be formal at all times - 'skint' is slang and not appropriate for formal correspondence - at best with this and the overdraft you could briefly say eg - you made a 'serious error of judgment here as a result of being short of personal funds, and I now fully appreciate that I should have arranged to borrow money from a relative instead of paying the incorrect fare for my journey' or something like that.

 

[AlterEgo]

Take out the bit about your motivation for committing the offences; they aren't going to care about this. And make it more formal. You are asking not to be prosecuted for committing an offence, they aren't your mate.

 

[John R]

If you look at my ticket history since September you can see I do pay from Sawbridgeworth when I can afford to.

I certainly wouldn't say this. Using the shoplifting analogy again, it's like saying "well I do pay for stuff sometimes when I come in".

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I certainly wouldn't say this. Using the shoplifting analogy again, it's like saying "well I do pay for stuff sometimes when I come in".

Frankly, all of paragraph 3 should go. If you read it from the railway's point of view, you're saying that other bills are more important to you than paying the railway. Not only will that not get the railway on your side, but it may make them decide that you need to be taken to court to convince you to pay your train fares.

 

[island]

In the UK we have paycheques, not "checks". And the valediction in a formal letter like this is "Yours faithfully", not "Kind regards".

 

[Hadders]

Frankly, all of paragraph 3 should go. If you read it from the railway's point of view, you're saying that other bills are more important to you than paying the railway. Not only will that not get the railway on your side, but it may make them decide that you need to be taken to court to convince you to pay your train fares.

I agree with this, it reads like a sob story. Arguably the whole paragraph could cause more harm as it could be argued that someone with enough intelligence to be studying for a masters degree should have enough intelligence to know that evading rail fares in a criminal offence.

 

[radnomuser1274]

Thanks for the help. I've made it more to the point.

Dear Sirs,

Ref:

Firstly, I want to apologise for what I have done. I can promise it will never happen again. Getting stopped, put under caution and read my rights really emphasised the severity of this situation. I can say for definite that I will never short fare again.

I now understand the severity of what I have done. I started my job in London at the start of September and will admit to buying tickets from Cheshunt instead of Sawbridgeworth because it made it cheaper. This is no excuse. I made a serious error of judgement here being short of personal funds and I now fully appreciate that I should have arranged to borrow money from my parents instead of paying the incorrect fare for my journey. I have spoken to my parents about this who are furious with me and stressed I should have asked them.

I have had a 16-25 Railcard since 2020, my first one of 3 years came with my student Santander account which has since expired so I don't have it anymore but I do have an email from Santander with the reference number for proof -REDACTED . Before I started my job in September, I purchased another one as a means to try and make it cheaper to get to work. My current rail cards reference number is REDACTED.

I want to apologise again. I have learned my lesson and would be grateful if you would kindly consider settling the matter without the need for court action. I want to cooperate fully and I would like to pay any outstanding fares owed and adminstration fees. This will not happen again.

Yours faithfully,
REDACTED

 

[Hadders]

This is much better.

 

[AlterEgo]

Take out the stuff about your parents being furious with you. You are an adult.

 

[Pushpit]

Take out the stuff about your parents being furious with you. You are an adult.

I would leave it in, it may get a wry smile out of the person reading it, and AI isn't that tuned to the human rites of passage (yet). It's very believable.

 

[miami]

He could tell where I lived from my banking app details as I didn't have ID on me

I'm confused, how did he get access to your banking app?

I didn't have ID on m

There is no requirement in the UK to have ID. You are required to give your name and address when asked by an officer of the railway.

 

[mmelvin17]

I'm confused, how did he get access to your banking app?

I assume he meant billing address?

 

[miami]

I assume he meant billing address?

That's a stretch - sounds like the RPI is taking peoples phones and accessing apps. Especially when combined with

"He then went through my Trainline history"

Is that normal behaviour? It doesn't sound like something a train company would sanction. I'd be astounded if they're even allowed to touch a mobile phone.

 

[Haywain]

I'm confused, how did he get access to your banking app?

Given the faff that involves opening a banking app it shouldn’t be possible to do so, therefore I can only assume that it was because the OP opened it to show their details.

 

[radnomuser1274]

I told him I didn't have any so he asked for me to show billing address through a banking app and then whilst he was taking photos of that I had to write some stuff out on this paper and then he started going through my Trainline history