Liverpool to Birmingham 2 trains per hour - will this ever return?

[gray1404]

Does anyone know if there are any plans for the Liverpool to Birmingham service to return to 2 trains per hour?

I regularly travel Liverpool to London with WMT and the current timetable is adding additional journey time to the journey in both directions.

 

[frodshamfella]

I guess its reduced due to Covid19 demand

 

[Djgr]

Does anyone know if there are any plans for the Liverpool to Birmingham service to return to 2 trains per hour?

I regularly travel Liverpool to London with WMT and the current timetable is adding additional journey time to the journey in both directions.

With the ongoing replacement to the franchise regime, will travelling from Liverpool to London via WMT still be "a thing" going forward?

 

[Bletchleyite]

With the ongoing replacement to the franchise regime, will travelling from Liverpool to London via WMT still be "a thing" going forward?

If you're going from MKC it can be quicker at some times of day. However, the dedicated fares may well go away.

 

[gray1404]

What ongoing replacement to this franchise?

 

[Bletchleyite]

What ongoing replacement to this franchise?

The move towards Government revenue risk could kill off competition between franchises.

 

[gray1404]

It would be a risky move by the DfT to kill off unregulated Wallk Up fares and Advance tickets. Passengers would see it as a massive price hike. Much the same reason Thameslink Only fares have remained.

 

[Ianno87]

It would be a risky move by the DfT to kill off unregulated Wallk Up fares and Advance tickets. Passengers would see it as a massive price hike. Much the same reason Thameslink Only fares have remained.

Although the stategy for Thameslink only fares had been to progressively increase the price to reduce the level of difference to the Any Permitted (and ultimately their eventual withdrawal)

 

[Camden]

Given the prior move to develop more through LNW services, the current service being non ideal would suggest that it is intended to be only temporary. The services do provide important connectivity throughout.

For long distance, the LNW provided much needed capacity uplift too, so I don't believe deterring competition between franchises would come into it. Hopefully demand will return next year.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Given the prior move to develop more through LNW services, the current service being non ideal would suggest that it is intended to be only temporary. The services do provide important connectivity throughout.

I doubt the through services will be back, ever. They utterly destroyed the WCML timetable, and WMT know it, I believe they were due to be re-split at some point anyway as a result.

Cheap tickets are a different debate, but if you're getting Euston to Liverpool for 25p (I exaggerate, but not by that much - these fares are seriously cheap) then you can't really complain about having to change. Indeed, 5 hours on a 350 is long enough that you'll probably *want* to change, if only to grab a cup of tea.

 

[Gareth]

Sending bodies through Birmingham who want to travel between Liverpool and London can't be the most efficient use of infrastructure either. Hopefully, the second tph intercity service should help remedy this.

 

[Hadders]

Sending bodies through Birmingham who want to travel between Liverpool and London can't be the most efficient use of infrastructure either. Hopefully, the second tph intercity service should help remedy this.

That's all very well but the 2nd intercity train will be expensive to travel on. Going via Birmingham on a 'direct' LNR train, admittedly taking far longer, but for a fraction of the intercity price is a winner for many people.

 

[swt_passenger]

Although the stategy for Thameslink only fares had been to progressively increase the price to reduce the level of difference to the Any Permitted (and ultimately their eventual withdrawal)

Highly theoretical though, because AIUI they never actually got anywhere near starting that process? Or did it start on the quiet...

 

[Gareth]

That's all very well but the 2nd intercity train will be expensive to travel on. Going via Birmingham on a 'direct' LNR train, admittedly taking far longer, but for a fraction of the intercity price is a winner for many people.

That's all very well also, but someone is paying for those cheaper tickets somewhere else in the system. Meanwhile, long distance passengers are taking longer to get to where they want to go by going through the Birmingham area, mixing with its commuter and regional traffic and using up its capacity. A doubling in the frequency of the direct intercity sevices should allow a more competitive pricing on the route but the ticket pricing regime as a whole needs looking into, alongside the franchising arrangements.

 

[Ianno87]

That's all very well but the 2nd intercity train will be expensive to travel on. Going via Birmingham on a 'direct' LNR train, admittedly taking far longer, but for a fraction of the intercity price is a winner for many people.

If you're prepared to pay so little, then having to change trains is reasonable. Designing services around people paying the least makes little sense.

 

[Bald Rick]

Through Liverpools via Brum: very unlikely

2 x Brum - Liverpools: unlikely for the next year or so I’d say.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you're prepared to pay so little, then having to change trains is reasonable. Designing services around people paying the least makes little sense.

TBH I'd go via Brum rather than Crewe/Stafford for Liverpool. More choice of trains from Euston so you don't end up waiting an hour, and more facilities at New St (plus if you go up top it isn't freezing and windswept unlike both Stafford and Crewe).

 

[gray1404]

Putting aside Liverpool to Euston WMT services via Birmingham. What is the likely hood of returning to 2 trains an hour between Liverpool and Birmingham?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Putting aside Liverpool to Euston WMT services via Birmingham. What is the likely hood of returning to 2 trains an hour between Liverpool and Birmingham?

I'd have thought fairly high but probably not, I would guess, until Dec 2021 at least.

 

[frodshamfella]

Putting aside Liverpool to Euston WMT services via Birmingham. What is the likely hood of returning to 2 trains an hour between Liverpool and Birmingham?

I think Hartford was given a half hourly service recently, so guess that's gone, Acton Bridge was at last improved too which is a station I use. Runcorn will also have less service to/from Liverpool . Of course the passenger volumes aren't there presently.