Llandudno - Utter Disgrace

[tbtc]

the important thing is to restrict developments pursuant to downsizing to things that will not prevent reinstatement (e.g. of six platforms) when conditions change.

The problem is, what do you do with all this unused land (sat waiting for Llandudno to become a busy holiday destination again)?

It'd cost a lot to upkeep platforms that will see no use.

 

[ainsworth74]

It'd cost a lot to upkeep platforms that will see no use.

Unless, you know, you just don't bother to maintain them. Therefore they sit spare and are fairly easy to bring back into service if needed but don't cost you anything. Seems much like the present arrangement, no?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

A two-platform station with 8-car capacity on each can deal with nine 3- or 4-car trains an hour on typical turnrounds. There used to be one at that overgrown backwater called Manchester Airport, but that now has three platforms (but only deals with nine an hour still).

The problem with Llandudno is that the approaches and buffer stop arrangements are chronic, so as soon as you tinker you need to sort it all out. I understand that there will still be three 150m long platform faces.

Didn't Manchester Airport cope partly by using the long length of the platforms to park two trains in the same platform at the same time? That's an arrangement that I think is not ideal, partly because it's less convenient to passengers, partly because it restricts flexibility (the last train in HAS to be the first train out).

I do agree with you that in principle, two platforms can cope with quite a high frequency, but I'd be more cautious for a station like Llandudno, since it's not really a commuter destination so much as a holiday destination. So if you looked forward 20 years to a much better railway, what Llandudno would ideally be seeing would probably include a fair few long distance services from different destinations, with quite low frequencies on each individual route combining to give a reasonable frequency, and I'd imagine if those were being serviced properly they'd have longer turnaround times than commuter services would (things like cleaning the toilets etc.), plus the timetable wouldn't be completely regular, and longer distances gives more likelihood of delay to individual services - all of which would argue for more platforms to keep enough flexibility (Of course you could say the same of Manchester Airport!)

 

[tbtc]

Unless, you know, you just don't bother to maintain them. Therefore they sit spare and are fairly easy to bring back into service if needed but don't cost you anything. Seems much like the present arrangement, no?

Hey, there's a thought, the current arrangement suddenly looks pretty sensible

 

[John55]

Didn't Manchester Airport cope partly by using the long length of the platforms to park two trains in the same platform at the same time? That's an arrangement that I think is not ideal, partly because it's less convenient to passengers, partly because it restricts flexibility (the last train in HAS to be the first train out).

I do agree with you that in principle, two platforms can cope with quite a high frequency, but I'd be more cautious for a station like Llandudno, since it's not really a commuter destination so much as a holiday destination. So if you looked forward 20 years to a much better railway, what Llandudno would ideally be seeing would probably include a fair few long distance services from different destinations, with quite low frequencies on each individual route combining to give a reasonable frequency, and I'd imagine if those were being serviced properly they'd have longer turnaround times than commuter services would (things like cleaning the toilets etc.), plus the timetable wouldn't be completely regular, and longer distances gives more likelihood of delay to individual services - all of which would argue for more platforms to keep enough flexibility (Of course you could say the same of Manchester Airport!)

You seem to be proposing that Llandudno needs to keep a station that is bigger than either Fenchurch St or Southend Victoria.

If there is a demand in 2032 for the sort of train services you suggest I doubt if there will be any problem meeting the need with a much smaller station than currently exists. After all when the LNWR/LMS/BR did run lots of specials to LLandudno they didn't leave the trains in the platforms they took them out of the station asap and back to Llandudno Junction.

 

[ole man]

There will be a 'walk out' at Llandudno in August with NWR and the local council.
Talks have mentioned turning the disused sidings into modern retail outlets, and updating the station, though platforms will remain at there current length for charters and special workings.
The road that runs in between the station will be updated as well.

 

[SIGGY56]

FYI, the derelict parts of the station (such as the abandoned platform) may not be a part of ATW's property but in fact Network Rail.

I know of several Rail User Groups who have demanded the TOCs to clear the track and/or disused structures at certain locations of rubbish and litter but have received reply that those areas are not a part of the station premises they operate and therefore cannot access. If they want it done they have to contact NR.

I can reveal that the derelict part of the station (Former Platform 4 & 5) will become the new car park for the station.

 

[dk1]

Although it is a far cry from bygone days i didnt find it too bad. Yes it will be great to see some investment. I was quite suprised by how busy some trains where along the N.Wales coast with a decent loading down the branch to Llandudno. Maybe the low average load has something to do with the hourly shuttle to/from the Junction, but according to traincrew this is supported by funding from Conwy Council anyway. The little flower pot train was a nice touch & so is the signal gantry .

 

[merlodlliw]

Although it is a far cry from bygone days i didnt find it too bad. Yes it will be great to see some investment. I was quite suprised by how busy some trains where along the N.Wales coast with a decent loading down the branch to Llandudno. Maybe the low average load has something to do with the hourly shuttle to/from the Junction, but according to traincrew this is supported by funding from Conwy Council anyway. The little flower pot train was a nice touch & so is the signal gantry .

Are you referring to the six Sunday trains? The Conwy Valley service is funded by both Conwy & Gwynedd County Councils on Sundays.

 

[dk1]

Are you referring to the six Sunday trains? The Conwy Valley service is funded by both Conwy & Gwynedd County Councils on Sundays.

No the Llandudno to Llandudno Junction shuttles. These run in layover time at Llandudno & i was told that local councils pay revenue support to ATW to shuttle them back each hour to enhance connections with the main line.

 

[merlodlliw]

No the Llandudno to Llandudno Junction shuttles. These run in layover time at Llandudno & i was told that local councils pay revenue support to ATW to shuttle them back each hour to enhance connections with the main line.

No they are franchise trains Mon/Sat , its the Sunday services that get Subsidy from the Councils, The Conwy Valley Summer six services are funded 100% by the two County Councils.

I will ask about the other Sunday shuttles, which staff may be referring to.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

From this weeks North Wales rag:

http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co....tion-project-is-back-on-track-55243-31472759/

 

[tbtc]

Securing European funding for the £4m-plus project has taken longer than expected, but the scheme is now on track for a construction contract to be awarded by the autumn

...just in time for Llandudno's services to be cut (with many of the "shuttles" withdrawn and some other coastal services diverted to Bangor instead)?

 

[MCW]

We went to Llandudno on Tuesday morning and felt just the same.
It wouldnt take much even if they just gave it a lick of paint.
Compare with other seaside terminals (yes there are probably others that are in a similar state ,Skegness for example) but this must rank along the worst. I was in Cleethorpes a couple of years back and even that looked better than this.

i know it's from wayyy back in the beginning but I agree, Skeg looks like a right divehole.

Thing is I think as a whole, the upkeep of infrastructure has gone limp over the decades. It's all about the cost these days to the companies but also they lack the pride that British railways and their predecessors had.

 

[John55]

i know it's from wayyy back in the beginning but I agree, Skeg looks like a right divehole.

Thing is I think as a whole, the upkeep of infrastructure has gone limp over the decades. It's all about the cost these days to the companies but also they lack the pride that British railways and their predecessors had.

British Rail - pride in its stations! Which British rail was that? Certainly not the London Midland Region I remember.

 

[HSTEd]

The cheap solution would be to screen off the platforms with a cheap wooden fence.