Llantwit Major - London Terminals (with break at Hayes & Harlington on rtn journey)

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heymrelliott

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Hello all,

In my first post, in a final act of desperation. I turn to you to help me plan this journey. I need to do the following

Saturday 28th July:
I need to go between Llantwit Major (LWM) and London Paddington direct. No fuss.

Wednesday 1st August
I need to be able to (using the return portion) return from London Paddington and go to Hayes & Harlington (HAY) (arriving there by 1400), stop until 1800, and then from there on to Reading and head back to Llantwit Major.

I have tried all manner of places to try and work this out, redspottedhankey, National Rail Enquiries and their Twitter account. And I can't work out how to do this in as few tickets as possible and stay within the rules for breaking journey etc.

Can anyone give me some advice. As I have lurked here for a long time, and I know you guys know the ins and outs of the system that are confusing the hell out of me. I have a 16-25 railcard.

tl;dr Llantwit Major -> London Paddington, then on the return, returning and breaking via Hayes & Harlington
 
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yorkie

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Welcome to the forum :)

If you are happy to ensure that the trains on your return journey comply with this:-
On services timed to depart
London Paddington between
1010 and 1501, and from 1901.
On services timed to depart
Reading between 1030 and
1530, and from 1901.
then a Super Off Peak Return (£48.20) from Llantwit Major to London Terminals would suit your needs.
 

heymrelliott

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Welcome to the forum :)

If you are happy to ensure that the trains on your return journey comply with this:-
On services timed to depart
London Paddington between
1010 and 1501, and from 1901.
On services timed to depart
Reading between 1030 and
1530, and from 1901.
then a Super Off Peak Return (£48.20) from Llantwit Major to London Terminals would suit your needs.
So just to clarify, with the return portion of that ticket, I could leave London Paddington and go to Hayes & Harlington. Stop. Get back on at Hayes & Harlington and continue my journey via Reading back to Llantwit Major.

Apologies if these questions seem a little bit "amateurish" but as someone whom likes to think he knows how this works, this little conundrum baffled me.
 

RJ

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It's also restricted before 09:15 at Bridgend, and before 09:40 at Cardiff Central, depending on which way you take the service from Llantwit Major.
If you're planning on connecting onto the 07:55 to Paddington, that is definitely not permitted.

The first valid train from Cardiff to London with at Super Off Peak Return from Llantwit Major is the 09:55.

With reference to the information that heymrelliot provided, this is not true. There is no time restriction on any part of the journey from Llantwit Major to London with such a ticket on Saturdays.
 

gnolife

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With reference to the information that heymrelliot provided, this is not true. There is no time restriction on any part of the journey from Llantwit Major to London with such a ticket on Saturdays.
I misread the day :oops:
sorry :(
 

heymrelliott

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With reference to the information that heymrelliot provided, this is not true. There is no time restriction on any part of the journey from Llantwit Major to London with such a ticket on Saturdays.
Right, this is what I have worked out. If someone could tell me if this is valid on a Super Off Peak Return (£48.20). I think this complies with all the rules you all mentioned above, but I'm not quite sure.

Saturday 28th July 2012
09:22 Llantwit Major -> Bridgend 09:39
10:00 Bridgend -> London Paddington 12:32

Wednesday 1st August 2012
12:57 London Paddington -> Hayes & Harlington 13:12
{stop in Hayes & Harlington for an interview until 1800}
18:14 Hayes & Harlington -> Reading 19:01
19:11 Reading -> Bridgend 21:15
21:42 Bridgend -> Llantwit Major 21:55

That should be valid?

I should also point out how grateful I am for the assistance. I have been literally trying to work this out for hours today, and being a regular traveller, but with an average knowledge of the railway, this has been pretty confusing!
 

yorkie

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I'm not entirely sure if it's valid to take the 1814 from Hayes, as you are catching a train that departed Paddington during the barred period.

The relevant restriction is:-
RETURN TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS
apply from the stations listed
below
. Tickets are valid:
On services timed to depart
London Paddington between
1010 and 1501, and from 1901.
On services timed to depart
Reading between 1030 and
1530, and from 1901.
On services timed to depart
London Waterloo between 0815
and 1559, and from 1901.
On services timed to arrive
at Salisbury between 0930 and
1740, and from 1901.


TRAVEL FROM STATIONS NOT
LISTED ABOVE:
Super Off-Peak tickets from
stations not listed are valid
for connections into trains
departing as shown above.

If your ticket is from London Terminals, but you are resuming your journey (after a break) at Hayes & Harlington, it is perhaps open to interpretation whether travel is from a station "not listed" as Hayes & Harlington is not listed, or whether the restriction from London still applies. I am not entirely sure which interpretation would prevail.
 

heymrelliott

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I'm not entirely sure if it's valid to take the 1814 from Hayes, as you are catching a train that departed Paddington during the barred period.

The relevant restriction is:-
RETURN TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS
apply from the stations listed
below
. Tickets are valid:
On services timed to depart
London Paddington between
1010 and 1501, and from 1901.
On services timed to depart
Reading between 1030 and
1530, and from 1901.
On services timed to depart
London Waterloo between 0815
and 1559, and from 1901.
On services timed to arrive
at Salisbury between 0930 and
1740, and from 1901.


TRAVEL FROM STATIONS NOT
LISTED ABOVE:
Super Off-Peak tickets from
stations not listed are valid
for connections into trains
departing as shown above.

If your ticket is from London Terminals, but you are resuming your journey (after a break) at Hayes & Harlington, it is perhaps open to interpretation whether travel is from a station "not listed" as Hayes & Harlington is not listed, or whether the restriction from London still applies. I am not entirely sure which interpretation would prevail.
Do you think it would be safer for me to assume the restriction from London Terminals applies, and head on say the 19:44 from Hayes & Harlington which I would guess does leave after the restriction on London Terminals?

Obviously I'd much rather sit around for an hour or two, then possibly get smacked by a penalty fare.
 

causton

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You could either buy a single from Hayes and Harlington to Reading if you don't want to hang about (£7.35 off peak day single), or wait until the first off-peak train which is the 1932. Arrives into Reading at 2011.
...or wait until the 1944 which gets into Reading at 20:23, then:
2041 Reading - 2224 Cardiff
2241 Cardiff - 2305 Barry
...then a bus from Barry to Llantwit Major - which I presume is a rail replacement bus?
Or the 2341 from Cardiff goes straight to Llantwit Major :)
 

yorkie

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Obviously I'd much rather sit around for an hour or two, then possibly get smacked by a penalty fare.
Just to clarify, a Penalty Fare cannot be charged for travelling on a time-restricted ticket (e.g. Super Off Peak) at a barred time; the correct action would be an excess fare up to the price of the cheapest available ticket that would allow the journey (unfortunately though that would be in the region of £100) including a Railcard discount, or a new ticket, whichever is the cheaper. In this particular case, a new ticket to Reading would be cheaper.

(Also worth mentioning is that a Penalty Fare also cannot be charged for travelling on a route-restricted ticket e.g. Not via London on a more expensive route e.g. via London, again an excess fare is charged)

I have asked an FGW guard to look into this for you.
 

heymrelliott

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You could either buy a single from Hayes and Harlington to Reading if you don't want to hang about (£7.35 off peak day single), or wait until the first off-peak train which is the 1932. Arrives into Reading at 2011.
...or wait until the 1944 which gets into Reading at 20:23, then:
2041 Reading - 2224 Cardiff
2241 Cardiff - 2305 Barry
...then a bus from Barry to Llantwit Major - which I presume is a rail replacement bus?
Or the 2341 from Cardiff goes straight to Llantwit Major :)
If I buy a ticket for Hayes & Harlington (single) I would be fine then to rejoin at Reading then?

I must also thank both of you for your contributions. I would never have figured half of this out without help.
 
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causton

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If I buy a ticket for Hayes & Harlington (single) I would be fine then to rejoin at Reading then?

I must also thank both of you for your contributions. I would never have figured half of this out without help. And also to Flamingo whom I have seen mentioned in a PM from yorkie, so pre-thanking in advance!
Indeed, if you buy the single from Hayes and Harlington to Reading you can make the journey from Hayes and Harlington to Reading and forget about the original ticket altogether (for now) as it is not needed...

and then use the break of journey capabilities to resume using the original ticket when you get to Reading. So if you did choose to pay the extra £7.35:

Use the original return Paddington - H+H
Use the single H+H - Reading
Use the original return Reading - Llantwit Major

(and by use, I mean "show to the guard/use in the barrier/gets rejected in the barrier so show to gateline staff" just to avoid confusing the staff so they don't think you have an invalid ticket :) )
 

heymrelliott

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Indeed, if you buy the single from Hayes and Harlington to Reading you can make the journey from Hayes and Harlington to Reading and forget about the original ticket altogether (for now) as it is not needed...

and then use the break of journey capabilities to resume using the original ticket when you get to Reading. So if you did choose to pay the extra £7.35:

Use the original return Paddington - H+H
Use the single H+H - Reading
Use the original return Reading - Llantwit Major

(and by use, I mean "show to the guard/use in the barrier/gets rejected in the barrier so show to gateline staff" just to avoid confusing the staff so they don't think you have an invalid ticket :) )
£7.35 compared to a possible £100 excess.... Lesser of two evils right there! I will have to add you, yorkie, gnolife, RJ to my "owe a pint to" list.

This help has been much appreciated!
 
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John @ home

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Welcome to the forum, heymrelliott!

I agree that the wording of Validity Code YV is ambiguous and I look forward to clarification from FGW.

In case it is deemed that the return travel restrictions do apply when travelling from Hayes & Harlington with an origin "London Terminals" on the ticket, I suggest an alternative which will save a little.

Buy a Railcard discounted Super Off-Peak Return from Llantwit Major to Hayes & Harlington route Not Via London. This costs £46.85. At this same time, ask for an Excess Fare for the outward leg only to travel "route + Any Permitted" instead of "route Not Via London". The Railcard discounted Super Off-Peak Return "route + Any Permitted" costs £49.50, so you should be charged half the difference, about £1.35, for the Excess Fare.

This combination is valid by any train on Saturday 28 July from Llantwit Major to London Paddington. On Wednesday 1 August, the outward portion is no longer valid so you need to buy a single Paddington - Hayes & Harlington, which costs £5.30 (or £2.90 after 0929 if you can use Oyster Pay-As-You-Go).

Then, returning after 1800, you are using a ticket which has the origin "Hayes & Harlington", so there is no doubt that you can use any connection from H&H into a valid train from Reading.
 

RJ

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Welcome to the forum, heymrelliott!

I agree that the wording of Validity Code YV is ambiguous and I look forward to clarification from FGW.

In case it is deemed that the return travel restrictions do apply when travelling from Hayes & Harlington with an origin "London Terminals" on the ticket, I suggest an alternative which will save a little.

Buy a Railcard discounted Super Off-Peak Return from Llantwit Major to Hayes & Harlington route Not Via London. This costs £46.85. At this same time, ask for an Excess Fare for the outward leg only to travel "route + Any Permitted" instead of "route Not Via London". The Railcard discounted Super Off-Peak Return "route + Any Permitted" costs £49.50, so you should be charged half the difference, about £1.35, for the Excess Fare.

This combination is valid by any train on Saturday 28 July from Llantwit Major to London Paddington. On Wednesday 1 August, the outward portion is no longer valid so you need to buy a single Paddington - Hayes & Harlington, which costs £5.30 (or £2.90 after 0929 if you can use Oyster Pay-As-You-Go).

Then, returning after 1800, you are using a ticket which has the origin "Hayes & Harlington", so there is no doubt that you can use any connection from H&H into a valid train from Reading.
Agreed!
 
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