LM Crewe-Euston Diagrams

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WCML

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Does anybody know which services are operated by 350/2s on the Crewe-Euston route on weekday mornings?

I know the 07:22 off Stafford is usually a 350/1, but I'm looking to travel a little later next Friday morning and I'm looking to avoid the horrific experience of being cramped in HC seating for 2 and a half hours.
 
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All Line Rover

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There are no Crewe to Euston services that are "diagrammed" to be 350/2's. They are all diagrammed to be 350/1's, but often change at the last minute. All of my recent journeys along that route have been 350/1's, thank goodness.

If a 350/2 turned up, I'd be minded to complain, as it is ridiculous for LM to expect people to sit in 3+2, high density seating with absolutely no tables (full or seat-back) for over 3 hours.

350/2's are for local Euston stoppers, Birmingham to Euston trains, and few other short distance services only, but they seem to turn up all over the place! <(
 

WCML

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Good. Lets hope the 350/2s are consigned down south then.

I thought they were intended for what you've said above, but I've seen 350/2s so frequently that I thought they were actually diagrammed for some services, particularly the 08:21 off Stafford, and some afternoon services, as well as on the Liverpool-Birmingham route.

I suppose the answer is, just use Virgin, but the Rail Sale fares at the moment are just too good to keep paying Virgin prices!
 

All Line Rover

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I suppose the answer is, just use Virgin, but the Rail Sale fares at the moment are just too good to keep paying Virgin prices!

The competition between LM and Virgin on the Stafford to London route is very strong, seeing as LM is much cheaper and only takes an hour longer. The only oddity is that the 18:46 London to Crewe services does not stop at Stafford, causing a lot of inconvenience for Stafford passengers with "LM Only" tickets (forcing them to go via Birmingham) - there being no direct service after 15:46!

(Although the fact that that train avoids Stafford does actually help many other passengers in more ways than one. ;))
 

MCR247

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I swear actually LM try to put /2s on the busiest TV trains since they have more seats..?
 

DarloRich

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There are no Crewe to Euston services that are "diagrammed" to be 350/2's. They are all diagrammed to be 350/1's, but often change at the last minute. All of my recent journeys along that route have been 350/1's, thank goodness.

If a 350/2 turned up, I'd be minded to complain, as it is ridiculous for LM to expect people to sit in 3+2, high density seating with absolutely no tables (full or seat-back) for over 3 hours.

350/2's are for local Euston stoppers, Birmingham to Euston trains, and few other short distance services only, but they seem to turn up all over the place! <(

I have done Crewe - MKC many times on a 350/2 it is not great, but then it is only slighty better on a 350/1. TBH i wouldnt want a 350/2 on a Birmingham - Euston train.

I would think they would be best used on Euston - MKC/Northampton/Rugby trains and perhaps on the Birmingham-Coventry services
 

WCML

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The competition between LM and Virgin on the Stafford to London route is very strong, seeing as LM is much cheaper and only takes an hour longer. The only oddity is that the 18:46 London to Crewe services does not stop at Stafford, causing a lot of inconvenience for Stafford passengers with "LM Only" tickets (forcing them to go via Birmingham) - there being no direct service after 15:46!

(Although the fact that that train avoids Stafford does actually help many other passengers in more ways than one. ;))

Depends which way you look at it. You can say that LM only take just over an hour longer or going with Virgin is twice as quick.

1:15 mins vs 2:28 mins.

It's a shame that LM can't keep the journey times down, as on the down its 2:07 mins whereas on the up its 2:22/2:28. The 11 minute dwell at Northampton is tedious though. No need for it really and no need for the 10 minute stop at Stafford either unless its done for pathing issues?

Its a pain for platforming at Stafford as delays mean that the xx:36 VT service has to use platform 4, as happened on the 07:35 train I caught the other week, meaning the VT came off the up fast, to the up slow, back to the up fast again. The LM 350 then reversed out of sight along the up fast towards Norton Bridge and I then I didn't see it again. Maybe it let the Pendy onto the up fast before following it?

Its also frequent for it not to have left in time, so the xx:25 XC service has to use platform 4. Not a problem though as it has to cross the fasts anyway.

The 18:46 off Euston is bizarre though. Why send it the other way at Colwich unless its done as you say to restrict competition?

Hopefully with the 110mph running, they can speed the LMs up and they'd be really using over the Virgin services.
 

bengley

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Depends which way you look at it. You can say that LM only take just over an hour longer or going with Virgin is twice as quick.

1:15 mins vs 2:28 mins.

It's a shame that LM can't keep the journey times down, as on the down its 2:07 mins whereas on the up its 2:22/2:28. The 11 minute dwell at Northampton is tedious though. No need for it really and no need for the 10 minute stop at Stafford either unless its done for pathing issues?

Its a pain for platforming at Stafford as delays mean that the xx:36 VT service has to use platform 4, as happened on the 07:35 train I caught the other week, meaning the VT came off the up fast, to the up slow, back to the up fast again. The LM 350 then reversed out of sight along the up fast towards Norton Bridge and I then I didn't see it again. Maybe it let the Pendy onto the up fast before following it?

Its also frequent for it not to have left in time, so the xx:25 XC service has to use platform 4. Not a problem though as it has to cross the fasts anyway.

The 18:46 off Euston is bizarre though. Why send it the other way at Colwich unless its done as you say to restrict competition?

Hopefully with the 110mph running, they can speed the LMs up and they'd be really using over the Virgin services.

There isn't an 1846 departure from Euston...
 

All Line Rover

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There isn't an 1846 departure from Euston...

Sorry, yes, it's the 18:29 departure on weekdays. Just a bit confusing when all of the others are at xx:46!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I swear actually LM try to put /2s on the busiest TV trains since they have more seats..?

Not in my experience. A train can be a train /2 one day and a /1 the next!
 

ChristopherJ

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London Midland provide a cheaper alternative to Virgin Trains on the WCML, the equivalent of a budget railway alternative.

Allow me to remind you that once-upon-a-Central-Trains-time ago the routes these four carriage Desiro trains operate was once operated by a single 153 railcar. The new rolling stock is designed to modernise and increase capacity, hence the high density seating.

If you want comfort and luxury, pay a premium and travel with Virgin Trains, otherwise begin walking now.
 

MK Tom

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route knowledge retention for London Midland drivers in the event of a diversion during engineering works?

Even though New Street - Lime Street trains go that way all the time?

The use of /2s is bad and a comparison with 153s doesn't apply south of Rugby... I don't think the 153s ever made it this far south on that working, they usually went to Coventry didn't they? I wish LM had just once used a 321 on the Trent Valley stopper. They'd have felt good belting along TV4.
 

Tubeboy

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As a frequent traveller between Euston and Lichfield/Stafford, I do find the LM service good. Of course the fact it is much cheaper than Virgin is the main reason I travel with them.

Xplo is right, 4 car EMU now compared to a 153 a few years back is a massive improvement, along with the through service.

I travelled on a 350/1 yesterday on a down service. We had to transfer to a 350/2 at Northampton. This has happened only a couple of times the last year. Don't think I would want a /2 all the way from London to Stafford. On a /1 it's bad enough, but at the price of £6.50, thanks to the sale, I can't complain.

Anyone know why there are 10 minute waits at Northampton and Stafford? Is it pathing or padding. Hopefully the Trent Valley services will get he go ahead to go via Weedon and cut out the 10 minute layovers. That with the 110mph service will bring big benefits.
 

All Line Rover

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London Midland provide a cheaper alternative to Virgin Trains on the WCML, the equivalent of a budget railway alternative.

Allow me to remind you that once-upon-a-Central-Trains-time ago the routes these four carriage Desiro trains operate was once operated by a single 153 railcar. The new rolling stock is designed to modernise and increase capacity, hence the high density seating.

If you want comfort and luxury, pay a premium and travel with Virgin Trains, otherwise begin walking now.

Don't get me wrong - I'm definitely not complaining about the service. The value for money is excellent! :D But the 350/2's with high density seating were not designed for the Trent Valley service. The 350/1's were (rightly) designed for that service, and it annoying when LM substitute them with a 350/2.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Anyone know why there are 10 minute waits at Northampton and Stafford? Is it pathing or padding. Hopefully the Trent Valley services will get he go ahead to go via Weedon and cut out the 10 minute layovers. That with the 110mph service will bring big benefits.

To allow everyone to nip to Uppercrust to get a baguette and coffee since LM scrapped the trolley! :lol:

(I'm not even sure if Stafford and Northampton have an Uppercrust).
 

Wolfie

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There are no Crewe to Euston services that are "diagrammed" to be 350/2's. They are all diagrammed to be 350/1's, but often change at the last minute. All of my recent journeys along that route have been 350/1's, thank goodness.

If a 350/2 turned up, I'd be minded to complain, as it is ridiculous for LM to expect people to sit in 3+2, high density seating with absolutely no tables (full or seat-back) for over 3 hours.

350/2's are for local Euston stoppers, Birmingham to Euston trains, and few other short distance services only, but they seem to turn up all over the place! <(

My bold

No problems in theory with what you say about Crewe but why Euston to Birmingham? Euston to Birmingham with LM is 2h03/2h15, Birmingham to Liverpool is 1h34/1h42 - if the arguement is purely journey time then the 350/2s should be on the latter.

I do appreciate that there is competition on the former (as indeed there is on Euston to Crewe) which there is not on the latter but surely that should encourage LM to inprove their offering on the one where there is a choice.

In reality I don't think 350/2s should be used on any long distance services (ie any further than Euston to Northampton) - hopefully the arrival of the 350/3s will help to ensure that.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Anyone know why there are 10 minute waits at Northampton and Stafford? Is it pathing or padding. Hopefully the Trent Valley services will get he go ahead to go via Weedon and cut out the 10 minute layovers. That with the 110mph service will bring big benefits.

I believe it is pathing, dates back to the time when very few if any through services were operated (ie pretty much everything was change at Northampton), and indeed may well reflect the old Silverlink/Central trains divide.
 

All Line Rover

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My bold

No problems in theory with what you say about Crewe but why Euston to Birmingham? Euston to Birmingham with LM is 2h03/2h15, Birmingham to Liverpool is 1h34/1h42 - if the arguement is purely journey time then the 350/2s should be on the latter.

I do appreciate that there is competition on the former (as indeed there is on Euston to Crewe) which there is not on the latter but surely that should encourage LM to inprove their offering on the one where there is a choice.

In reality I don't think 350/2s should be used on any long distance services (ie any further than Euston to Northampton) - hopefully the arrival of the 350/3s will help to ensure that.

Don't ask me why, but LM seem to think that Birmingham to Euston is a commuter service whereas Birmingham to Liverpool is an InterCity service. :|
 

swt_passenger

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Don't ask me why, but LM seem to think that Birmingham to Euston is a commuter service whereas Birmingham to Liverpool is an InterCity service. :|

Surely the point is that Virgin provide the InterCity service. LM provide commuter services into Birmingham and Euston, that happen to be joined in the middle for operating convenience. Reference to their track access contract suggests that they aren't actually required to operate through services.
 

MCR247

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Surely the point is that Virgin provide the InterCity service. LM provide commuter services into Birmingham and Euston, that happen to be joined in the middle for operating convenience. Reference to their track access contract suggests that they aren't actually required to operate through services.

I was going to say that, you beat me to it though!
 

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Don't ask me why, but LM seem to think that Birmingham to Euston is a commuter service whereas Birmingham to Liverpool is an InterCity service. :|

Perhaps because it calls at all shacks. Certainly when I've travelled on LM from BHM to EUS the train is largely deserted until Bletchley/MKC.

It could be argued Virgin do the intercity service and Chiltern do the scenic/enthusiast route whereas LM do time rich, cash poor like students and short services for those not near a station Virgin call at.

When I was on my last Great Escape the TM of our ex-Euston train suggested those going to Stoke change to XC and those to Crewe change onto the incoming ex-New St LM service (I didn't because I had a fine seat :D)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Surely the point is that Virgin provide the InterCity service. LM provide commuter services into Birmingham and Euston, that happen to be joined in the middle for operating convenience. Reference to their track access contract suggests that they aren't actually required to operate through services.

That'd make a lot of sense. In the days of CT/Silverlink were these cheap tickets route: Northampton as they couldn't be LM only
 
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Ascot

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Wouldn't be an Intercity route as this stems from NSE days. Besides 350/2s aren't bad for their role and those lucky enough to travel first still sit in 2+2. Tickets used to be route "Central/Silverlink" when the Northampton split came in and was just Silverlink running 321s hourly before this. Virgin offer a good service from Birmingham to London anyway but you have to pay for it.


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MCR247

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Perhaps because it calls at all shacks. Certainly when I've travelled on LM from BHM to EUS the train is largely deserted until Bletchley/MKC.

I've got the 0913 before and at Northampton people were left behind (which must have been even more annoying since they were stood on the platform watching the full train during its 10 minute dwell time!)
 

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Crossover

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Even though New Street - Lime Street trains go that way all the time?

Colwich Junction is just North of Rugeley Trent Valley. The 1829 ex EUS runs non-stop from Rugeley TV to Stoke travelling on the fasts and avoiding Stafford and the platformed junction at Stone.

When I was on my last Great Escape the TM of our ex-Euston train suggested those going to Stoke change to XC and those to Crewe change onto the incoming ex-New St LM service (I didn't because I had a fine seat :D)

It sounds like you were on the final train of the evening from Stafford to Crewe via Stone. They get held in platform 6 at Stafford for about 25 mins and it is much quicker to change to XC for Stoke or the other LM for Crewe (though it is usually quicker to change for Crewe any time of the day) than wait for the via Stone train to depart.

__________________________

The diagramming tends to be an issue at LM though since the introduction of 350/2's, it seemed to improve (350/2's were a relatively common sight at Stafford at one point, but is now decidedly rare (indeed, in a day at the station in summer, the group I was with saw no /2's that I can recall).
I also believe where swaps are done and a /2 ends up on a Trent Valley service, that when it goes back to London, it gets swapped and the return working is then a /1.
 

swt_passenger

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Even though New Street - Lime Street trains go that way all the time?

Don't forget there'll be a number of different LM driver depots, and individual drivers will sign a slightly different subset of LM's normal routes.

I have no details of who does what, but hypothetically it could just be something like Northampton drivers don't cover that route on their usual services, and the drivers familiar with that route don't sign the Trent Valley.
 

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Does anybody know which services are operated by 350/2s on the Crewe-Euston route on weekday mornings?

I know the 07:22 off Stafford is usually a 350/1, but I'm looking to travel a little later next Friday morning and I'm looking to avoid the horrific experience of being cramped in HC seating for 2 and a half hours.

It must be good news that LMs new order of 350s will have 2+2 seating
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
There are no Crewe to Euston services that are "diagrammed" to be 350/2's. They are all diagrammed to be 350/1's, but often change at the last minute. All of my recent journeys along that route have been 350/1's, thank goodness.

If a 350/2 turned up, I'd be minded to complain, as it is ridiculous for LM to expect people to sit in 3+2, high density seating with absolutely no tables (full or seat-back) for over 3 hours.

Any chance 321s could turn up on these diagrams and do we know ho wlong LM are keeping them plus if any internal work will be done as AFAIK they haven't been touched

I suppose there is no chance of a 321 turning turning up on these diagrams? I take it LM are keeping them despite bringing in the new stock

350/2's are for local Euston stoppers, Birmingham to Euston trains, and few other short distance services only, but they seem to turn up all over the place! <(

It does seem off they don't have seat back tables like SWT units. Incidentally I was on a FCC class 321 yesterday which had decent tables... presumably an ex Silverlink unit. I thought FCC had done a very good job refurbishing the unit as well
 
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Triumph

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Does anybody know which services are operated by 350/2s on the Crewe-Euston route on weekday mornings?

I know the 07:22 off Stafford is usually a 350/1, but I'm looking to travel a little later next Friday morning and I'm looking to avoid the horrific experience of being cramped in HC seating for 2 and a half hours.

The following are booked 350/2 (SX)

1U27 0846 EUS-CRE
1U28 0946 EUS-CRE
1U32 1233 CRE-EUS
1U34 1333 CRE-EUS

All the rest are booked for 350/1's
 

Triumph

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I'm surprised, although at least I'm very unlikely to travel on one of those services! :D

I think it may be due to the fact that these diagrams start from Bletchley CS and only 3 x 350/1's stable there overnight and these already do Crewe workings and one does a BHM-LIV service.
 
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