LM Crewe - Euston now /2 operation

[IanPooleTrains]

Where is the Trent Valley service busiest (north of Northampton)?

IIRC, it might be Tamworth and Nunny BUT, that being said, when it is a GE ticket week, the trains can be fulland standing before it even gets close to Rugeley TV

 

[tbtc]

IIRC, it might be Tamworth and Nunny BUT, that being said, when it is a GE ticket week, the trains can be fulland standing before it even gets close to Rugeley TV

Thanks.

Is it "local" traffic in the Trent Valley (e.g. Tamworth to Nuneaton), or from Trent Valley stations to those further afield?

 

[IanPooleTrains]

Thanks.

Is it "local" traffic in the Trent Valley (e.g. Tamworth to Nuneaton), or from Trent Valley stations to those further afield?

I think it is mainly heading into Northampton and beyond, it is very rare that I have seen someone get on in the TV area on the trains that me and Si catch and get off before Northampton but we don't really pay that much attention

 

[Dreadnought]

The 110 plan will allow all 350s to operate at 110 as far as I knew, not exclusively the /1s.

Tony Miles wrote in Novembers Modern Railways that if the trials are successful then the 30 350/1s would be upgraded to run at the higher speed and that the new build 350/3s would be delivered with this capability. No mention of 350/2s being upgraded as well though.

 

[branchline]

350's don't have SDO, instead they have UDS which is a big difference!
Picture a 8 car train stopping at Stone and only the front 4 cars are opened. Now picture the family with bags trying walk from the rear 4 cars before the train leaves the platform.....

I've worked some 8 cars into Wembley central and had to UDS, it can take forever get everyone off!

 

[Class377/5]

350's don't have SDO, instead they have UDS which is a big difference!
Picture a 8 car train stopping at Stone and only the front 4 cars are opened. Now picture the family with bags trying walk from the rear 4 cars before the train leaves the platform.....

I've worked some 8 cars into Wembley central and had to UDS, it can take forever get everyone off!

What's UDS?

Also I thought that you had to have at least one door from each unit open to allow people off and on?

 

[MK Tom]

What would it cost to fit them with SDO?

This is all rather academic given LM have stated they're not exclusively putting 350/2s on the Crewe services.

 

[Pumbaa]

This is all rather academic given LM have stated they're not exclusively putting 350/2s on the Crewe services.

And they have also stated that they are. I have emailed back to LM, but I'm not holding my breath to hear from them soon.

 

[branchline]

What's UDS?

Also I thought that you had to have at least one door from each unit open to allow people off and on?

UDS = unit de-select ie all the doors on the rear unit are locked until the system is switched off. Also when the system is on the conductor has to be in the leading cab of the rear 4 cars so will not be able to see anyone walk up the train.

As there are a few station on the way to Crewe where you would need to UDS most people will just cram onto front 4 cars anyway!

 

[Schnellzug]

350's don't have SDO, instead they have UDS which is a big difference!
Picture a 8 car train stopping at Stone and only the front 4 cars are opened. Now picture the family with bags trying walk from the rear 4 cars before the train leaves the platform.....

I've worked some 8 cars into Wembley central and had to UDS, it can take forever get everyone off!

Would it not be sensible to say "Passengers for xxx, xxxx, & xxxxx should travel in the front 4 coaches", like most places do?

 

[swt_passenger]

Would it not be sensible to say "Passengers for xxx, xxxx, & xxxxx should travel in the front 4 coaches", like most places do?

SWT's 450s and 444s already have a split announcement system to deal with this type of scenario. 'Passengers for XXX in this part of the train should move forward' or something like that.

Presumably Siemens could make it work in a 350 as well...

 

[Eagle]

SWT's 450s and 444s already have a split announcement system to deal with this type of scenario. 'Passengers for XXX in this part of the train should move forward' or something like that.

Presumably Siemens could make it work in a 350 as well...

Quite common on the Bournemouth/Weymouth runs for the rear 5 of 10 not to open at Clapham Junction (the two halves have separate announcements anyway because only half of the train gets all the way to Weymouth—low demand or cheap and cheerful 1980s electrification, you tell me).

 

[Matt Taylor]

SDO and UDS sound like the same thing, turn a switch and the rear unit gets locked out of the door opening procedure. 450s and 444s can only be selectively operated by unit so if you have an eight car you can only open 4 or all 8 unless you are operating the local door only.

 

[Schnellzug]

Quite common on the Bournemouth/Weymouth runs for the rear 5 of 10 not to open at Clapham Junction (the two halves have separate announcements anyway because only half of the train gets all the way to Weymouth—low demand or cheap and cheerful 1980s electrification, you tell me).

I think it's because of power supply, I think it would blow a fuse if they ran a10-car 444. Plus there's platform lengths, and it perpetuates a long established Southern Railway tradition.

 

[Nym]

SDO lets you select how many doors to open down to the carrage, rather than the unit.

 

[ukrob]

SDO and UDS sound like the same thing, turn a switch and the rear unit gets locked out of the door opening procedure. 450s and 444s can only be selectively operated by unit so if you have an eight car you can only open 4 or all 8 unless you are operating the local door only.

They are not the same. SDO can be told, for example, open the doors in the front 5 carriages only. Hence the name SDO.

 

[shaun]

Well i know who NOT to use from Euston to Crewe then. Shame as i prefer a 2+2 '350' to a Pendo, but certainly not one with 3+2 seating! Didnt you used to be able to get Mk3s on this route once upon a time? What a downgrade! Should be 444-type trains really for such a long distance, albeit longer formations.

 

[387star]

What services wil the 350/1s be used on and will they keep the lower density interior?

 

[shaun]

What services wil the 350/1s be used on and will they keep the lower density interior?

I would imagine London - Birmingham NS, hope so as they are a lovely alternative to the Pendos. Nice to have the extra legroom at least, keeps me going till Chiltern roll out more of their Mk3s.

 

[Pumbaa]

What services wil the 350/1s be used on and will they keep the lower density interior?

As 87015 mentioned up thread, I doubt anything will change. Pot luck will continue - LM can't diagram to save their lives.

Also from Dec, daily allocation goes from 60/67 to 62/67.

 

[87015]

Also from Dec, daily allocation goes from 60/67 to 62/67.

Is that all? Still a pathetic requirement! Is any comparable EMU used so sparsely, I can't think of any - anyone know how many 380s are diagrammed out these days?

 

[Schnellzug]

As 87015 mentioned up thread, I doubt anything will change. Pot luck will continue - LM can't diagram to save their lives.

Also from Dec, daily allocation goes from 60/67 to 62/67.

Given the kind of reliability that Desiros seem to be capable of putting up (weren't the 350s the most reliable in the country according to a recent Survey?), I don't see that that should be too much of a problem.

 

[Pumbaa]

That's 92% availability. 390s and 395s are at lower utilisation rates at the moment. But I agree on paper it's appalling.
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380s seem to be 34 out of 38, so 89%. That's even worse.
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And IIRC 458s were 26/30, so 86%.

 

[sprinterguy]

That's 92% availability. 390s and 395s are at lower utilisation rates at the moment. But I agree on paper it's appalling.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
380s seem to be 34 out of 38, so 89%. That's even worse.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And IIRC 458s were 26/30, so 86%.

What would you deem to be a "good" standard of availability for an EMU fleet, out of simple curiosity? I'm only an armchair student of diagramming (for now!), but 90% availability sounds like quite a high standard to me.

 

[Schnellzug]

I wonder what it is for SWT, since there do seem to be rather a lot of 450s used on 444 workings currently. Or perhaps it's just that no one at SWT HQ is too bothered about what they turn out.

 

[Pumbaa]

Open to correction - 357s, 444s, 377s, 456s and 460s when were had utilisation rates around the 95%. Even when SL had 321s they had low 90%.
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For comparison, a major intercity TOC has a daily requirement of 90% for one of its classes, this jumps to 95% on FO.

 

[sprinterguy]

Is it possible that the eight new 350/3s to be delivered in late 2013, as additional capacity, could be fitted with SDO? If so, it could be possible to run them as 8-coach pairs of units at 110mph on the Trent Valley services, use the 350/1s on the quieter TV services and do away with the need for any 350/2 diagrams on the Trent Valley.

 

[Nym]

Or when the routes change and the TV stopper no longer gets sent via stoke in lieu of a Northern being extended from Crewe to Stoke instead, send it direct to Crewe and you can have 8 cars with no issues, and speed up journey times.

 

[150222]

Is it possible that the eight new 350/3s to be delivered in late 2013, as additional capacity, could be fitted with SDO? If so, it could be possible to run them as 8-coach pairs of units at 110mph on the Trent Valley services, use the 350/1s on the quieter TV services and do away with the need for any 350/2 diagrams on the Trent Valley.

It may cause problems when coupled to /1's and /2's. When central aquired the 170/1's from midland mainline they stopped using SDO on all 170's due to it being a differant type to the 170/5 and 170/6's. Also the 350/3's will be near identical to the rest of them as it is an add on order.

 

[sprinterguy]

It may cause problems when coupled to /1's and /2's. When central aquired the 170/1's from midland mainline they stopped using SDO on all 170's due to it being a differant type to the 170/5 and 170/6's. Also the 350/3's will be near identical to the rest of them as it is an add on order.

Fair enough, I was just wondering. What you say makes a lot of sense.