LM Liverpool-Euston

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Badger

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So I've found myself catching the Liverpool to Birmingham service quite a few times the past few weeks. Every time the train has "turned into" the Birmingham to Euston stopper.

I'm wondering why this isn't advertised as Liverpool to Euston. The waiting time in between the journeys wasn't very long at all (I got off and straight back on to go to Coventry..)

Is there any particular reason they don't say it's Liverpool to Euston? Or is this just a temporary thing?
 
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calc7

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So I've found myself catching the Liverpool to Birmingham service quite a few times the past few weeks. Every time the train has "turned into" the Birmingham to Euston stopper.

I'm wondering why this isn't advertised as Liverpool to Euston. The waiting time in between the journeys wasn't very long at all (I got off and straight back on to go to Coventry..)

Is there any particular reason they don't say it's Liverpool to Euston? Or is this just a temporary thing?

I would imagine split diagrams to allow for versatility in the case of delays. To the passenger, there's not that much difference after all.
 

Pumbaa

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They're diagrammed separately. 8 self contained BHM-LIV diagrams, with 2 additions. An early morning New St - International forms a Liverpool service from there and vice versa in the evening peak. Same units though.

I imagine they don't bother advertising it as the through service as its at least an hour slower than going via the Trent valley, which is ridiculously slow itself.
 

O L Leigh

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I'm given to understand that there is a contractural relationship between LM and Virgin that precludes LM advertising through services from Euston to Crewe and Liverpool. Therefore the longer-distance LM services have to be advertised in two halves even though one train works all the way through.

O L Leigh
 

Pumbaa

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Fair enough. Right or wrong, that was what I'd been told.

O L Leigh

Before 1st April 2012 any trains to Brum had to be advertised as via Northampton. The few services that worked past New St to Wolverhampton were advertised on the boards as Tipton.

Now there are no such restrictions. So you were partly right :)
 

Badger

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That makes sense (after what Virgin did to WSMR...)

Weren't there plans though for LM to introduce a Liverpool to Euston via Brum service at some point though (or was that Manchester)?
 

Pumbaa

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Currently LM operate;

2tph Birmingham - Liverpool via the direct Stafford-Crewe line
1tph Euston - Crewe via Stone and Stoke and the Trent Valley

They proposed;

1tph Birmingham - Liverpool via Stone and Stoke
1tph Birmingham - Preston via the direct line
1tph Euston - Liverpool via the direct line and the Trent Valley
 

JB1601

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I'm given to understand that there is a contractural relationship between LM and Virgin that precludes LM advertising through services from Euston to Crewe and Liverpool. Therefore the longer-distance LM services have to be advertised in two halves even though one train works all the way through.

O L Leigh

They definitely advertise the fares available LM only between Liverpool and Euston, though. (wonder how many people buying them get a shock as I don't think they mention the change of trains)
 

aformeruser

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(or was that Manchester)?

They proposed;

1tph Birmingham - Liverpool via Stone and Stoke
1tph Birmingham - Preston via the direct line
1tph Euston - Liverpool via the direct line and the Trent Valley

LM haven't proposed routing the London-Crewe service away from Stone, just extending it to Liverpool with one of the Birmingham-Liverpool services diverted to Preston.

Network Rail proposed re-routing the London-Crewe/Liverpool service away from Stone, with the Manchester-Stoke service being extended to Birmingham via Stone and being transferred from Northern to LM. That would be in conjunction with diverting half the XC services between Manchester and Birmingham via Crewe.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I'm given to understand that there is a contractural relationship between LM and Virgin that precludes LM advertising through services from Euston to Crewe and Liverpool. Therefore the longer-distance LM services have to be advertised in two halves even though one train works all the way through.

Fair enough. Right or wrong, that was what I'd been told.

Perhaps the agreement is to advertise the faster VT services in their own timetables.

The 350s between Crewe and London dates back to CT/Silverlink with one through train from Liverpool, which has since been removed. It was only a few trains per day not a full hourly service then though and not via Stone either. I remember the ORR response to the track access application was that the through service should be treated as an open access service and if paths are needed for franchise services in the future then the service must be split up.
 

Mutant Lemming

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This seems to be a drastic reduction and increased journey time for the currently successful Liverpool-Birmingham service. Wouldn't it be better routing the Preston service via Stone ?
 

aformeruser

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This seems to be a drastic reduction and increased journey time for the currently successful Liverpool-Birmingham service. Wouldn't it be better routing the Preston service via Stone ?

See my above post. The Liverpool service wouldn't go via Stone it would be a new Manchester-Birmingham via Stone service that would actually be an extension of the Manchester-Stoke stopper.
 

calc7

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So is it:
1tph BHM-LIV via CRE (as now)
1tph BHM-MAN via STA and SOT (extension of MAN-SOT stopper)
1tph BHM-PRE via CRE and WBQ (new service)
1tph EUS-LIV via NUN and CRE, avoiding SOT (extension and diversion of current EUS-CRE via SOT service)
?
 

Eagle

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So is it:
1tph BHM-LIV via CRE (as now)
1tph BHM-MAN via STA and SOT (extension of MAN-SOT stopper)
1tph BHM-PRE via CRE and WBQ (new service)
1tph EUS-LIV via NUN and CRE, avoiding SOT (extension and diversion of current EUS-CRE via SOT service)
?

That, plus the MAN–BMH going via CRE instead of SOT.
 

frodshamfella

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They definitely advertise the fares available LM only between Liverpool and Euston, though. (wonder how many people buying them get a shock as I don't think they mention the change of trains)

I have spoken to a few people who have used London Midland from Runcorn and Hartford to London, I have used them from Acton Bridge to London, and managed to get a pretty low fare. Its fine if you are not in a rush.
 

Johnny Lewis

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I'm surprised to read that the unit off a Liv-Bhm service then goes on to form a Bhm-Nmp-Eus service. As I understood it, platform 4C at New Street was created specifically to give the Liv-Bhm trains a convenient place to turn around without occupying a through platform.

If Liv-Bhm trains ARE now regularly forming Bhm-Eus trains, then surely it WOULD make sense to advertise at least Liv-Nmp to be a through service, as it would finally give a frequent (and relatively fast) service from the likes of Nmp, Rug, Cov and Bhi to Cre, Run and Liv, which has long been missing from the timetable (at least, as far as Cov and Bhi are concerned) since the demise of InterCity Cross Country.

And whatever the rights and wrongs of it, people DO like through trains, and I could see people travelling from the likes of Nmp / Rug to Liv, even though it might be quicker to travel via the Trent Valley and change trains.
 

MCR247

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Every time I've done Liverpool - Brum or v.v the train has gone from/to 4C and every time I've done Brum - London trains on LM or v.v they have come into the platform from the London direction
 

Badger

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Aye, the majority of the time that's true; however recently every Liv-Brum train I've caught (only three, but nvm) that way has formed the Euston service, on platform 1.

Afaik before electrification, the Liverpool Birmingham service was a through train joining the Birmingham to Leicester train.

4C used to be used by the Wolverhampton stopper but now this continues to Walsall.
 

aformeruser

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Afaik before electrification, the Liverpool Birmingham service was a through train joining the Birmingham to Leicester train.

More recently CT used to have half of the Liverpool-Birmingham services continuing to Stansted Airport.
 

Gareth

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And whatever the rights and wrongs of it, people DO like through trains, and I could see people travelling from the likes of Nmp / Rug to Liv, even though it might be quicker to travel via the Trent Valley and change trains.

Yes and perhaps also capacity and seats in the Brum area. I know that going to Leicester from Liverpool, we're always told to get the London Midland service to Stafford, change there for the London Midland service to Euston from Crewe then change at Nuneaton for the CrossCountry service to Leicester from Birmingham. This is rather than staying on the Birimingham-bound train all the way to New Street and then changing for the CrossCountry service there. That said, I did consider doing the reverse journey and staying on the CrossCountry train, but it was so packed and boiling in there, that jumping off at Nuneaton was a mercy.
 

Ascot

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Most of the BHM-LIV services do use 4C apart from a few of the start/peak/end slots which go on to form depot/peak services. The 08:36 from Brum has gone off 4C last week, likewise the 17:20 arrival from Liverpool has gone into 4C all last week.
 

172212

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I don't think this is normal. The Liverpool - Birmingham service usually departs at platform 4c in new street

So I've found myself catching the Liverpool to Birmingham service quite a few times the past few weeks. Every time the train has "turned into" the Birmingham to Euston stopper.

I'm wondering why this isn't advertised as Liverpool to Euston. The waiting time in between the journeys wasn't very long at all (I got off and straight back on to go to Coventry..)

Is there any particular reason they don't say it's Liverpool to Euston? Or is this just a temporary thing?
 
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