LM Super Off Peak (LJ) Liverpool to London Restrictions and journey planner limits

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by gray1404, 10 May 2015.

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  1. gray1404

    gray1404 Established Member

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    http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?...xpert=on&flow=1&multi=0&fare=8&rte=42&tkt=OPR

    £21.10 with a railcard LM ONLY

    Am trying to book this fares. Outward travel 15 May returning 17 May. For the outward journey I have tried using Thetrainline and VT for the prupose of getting times for valid trains. (clicking on show slower routes then check for trains next to this fare) It is hopeless! You will ticket is not valid for departure between 16.30 & 19.30

    It is showing departures up to 15.04 but then nothing until 19.34 which doesn't make sense to me.

    It also says in the restrictions: "A connecting service can be used to complete a journey begun at a valid time."

    So does that mean that provided I leave LIV before 16.30 and get connecting services I can finish my journey. Surely though, if you apply the above restrictions, even travel on the 16.04 would be permitted as follows:

    16.04 LIV-BHM 17.48
    18.14 BHM - EUS 20.27

    I know the following would be barred as I would be leaving LIV after 16.30
    16.34 LIV-STA 17.41
    17.56 STA - EUS 19.50
    HOWEVER, would I be able to catch to 16.04 to Stafford arriving at 17.10 then have a longer wait in order to catch the 17.56 from Stafford - or would this not be classed as using a connecting service as to catch this train I could just have easily left on the 16.34 which is not allowed on the restrictions. (in which case if really wanted to get the 16.04, must I therefore travel via BMH as above)?

    I am also thinking of doing the following in one of the diretions (not sure which one yet it might actually be on the RETURN leg) as I've never taken the lines between Crewe and Stafford via Stoke or Birmingham to Euston via Northamption.

    Liverpool to Crewe LM
    Crewe to Stafford (via Stoke) LM
    Stafford to Birmingham New Street LM
    Birmingham New Street to London Euston (via Northamption) LM

    I am assuming this would be a permitted route because when I enter in Stoke on Trent and Birmingham as via points the fare still comes up. Would I need to take extra consideration for the time restrictions of I was to do this (doing it this way to take considrably longer or would be impossible for a journey planner to produce a journey plan) or is all that matters that I start the journey at a permitted time.

    I know that a break of journey is NOT permitted on the outward journey, but I think I am right in saying that provided I do not leave the station (and travel on the next connecting service by LM) this would not be considered a break.

    Thanks guys!
     
  2. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Yes, you can leave Liverpool before 1630 and it doesn't matter what you do after that.
    Indeed
    ...yes if you do not leave the station you are definitely not breaking your journey. See Break of journey
     
  3. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    This has been a long-standing issue regarding the limitations of the booking engines.

    It is perfectly fine to take the 1604 and connect at Birmingham, similarly there is nothing to say that your connection must be onto the first train that allows you to continue your journey, especially given that the 1756 from Stafford arrives into Euston before the arrival of the train from Birmingham you would have ended up on.

    I would be very surprised if you were pulled up for going via Stoke. The guard might be surprised, but as long as you are clear on what you are doing, I wouldn't expect any hassle.
     
  4. Techniquest

    Techniquest Veteran Member

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    Surely the easiest way here is 1604 LIV-CRE then 1702 CRE-EUS? I've not got a timetable to hand, having recycled all the timetables I have today as they're going out of date, but I'm fairly sure 1604 LIV-BHM would be due into CRE at 1645 or so, leaving plenty of time for an easy connection onto the 1702 to EUS.

    Oh, and the above will happily get the OP his desired route CRE-STA via SOT.

    A look on FGW.co.uk and their Mixing Deck gives me nothing after 1434 which is most peculiar.
     
  5. tony_mac

    tony_mac Established Member

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    Since at least 2009
    http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=22046


    (Although errors that under-charge don't seem to take quite so long to fix...)
     
  6. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I simply do not believe that excuse.

    How difficult is it to implement a simple if statement in the programme to check the starting time of the itinerary?

    Like you said, errors that benefit passengers seem to get fixed promptly.
     
  7. gray1404

    gray1404 Established Member

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    This is VERY useful to know, so as long as I start my journey before 1630 and do not break my journey (as defined in the guide) then I'm in the clear.

    Sidenote, love the way that provided you do not leave the station you are not breaking your journey - regardless of how long you've been on the station.
     
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