LNER 2x5 Car

[glasgowtripper]

Please move elsewhere if posted in the wrong category... for the past few days I’ve noticed an increased number of 2x5 car running north of Leeds, and indeed on the kgx-edb route. I thought they were reserved for Leeds to London only?

 

[221129]

I thought they were reserved for Leeds to London only?

No...

 

[800001]

Engineering work so service diverting via Carlisle, to give more units available they are using a 5 car bimode running with a 5 car electric.

 

[Kieran1990]

Please move elsewhere if posted in the wrong category... for the past few days I’ve noticed an increased number of 2x5 car running north of Leeds, and indeed on the kgx-edb route. I thought they were reserved for Leeds to London only?

LNER are using the 2X5 formations on the Anglo-Scots due to the diversions via Tyne Valley and there will be positioning the sets for the diversions.

They prefer to keep them on KGX-West Yorks but they can venture further north

 

[91103eastcoast]

At weekends at the moment LNER are diverted between Newcastle and Edinburgh via Carlisle, as I understand it a class 800/2 5 car (3 generator units) coupled to a class 801/1 5 car (1 emergency generator unit) provides sufficient power for the more sedate journey between Newcastle and Carlisle.

presumably this means they are able to divert more trains or provide more capacity on the trains that are diverted as there are only 14? 9 car bi-modes and 10 5 car bi-modes which have sufficient power to run for longer distances off the wires

 

[JonathanH]

presumably this means they are able to divert more trains or provide more capacity on the trains that are diverted as there are only 14? 9 car bi-modes and 10 5 car bi-modes which have sufficient power to run for longer distances off the wires

Effectively 12 9-car bi-modes (with 800109 unavailable) and I'd imagine you cant diagram all of them so pairing a 5-car bi-mode and 5-car electric is necessary to cover all the required services.

 

[route101]

I have heard of them going up to Edinburgh even as a 5 car. Not ideal.

 

[stantheman]

Do excuse my ignorance but which units are 5 car ?

 

[800001]

I have heard of them going up to Edinburgh even as a 5 car. Not ideal.

One service since they started was ran as a 5 car.

800/2 are 5 car bimode
801/1 are 5 car electric

 

[43094]

There’s a 5-car operating to Edinburgh today, due to a unit shortage.

Of the 13x 9-car Bi-mode units, each day:

1 is under repairs
2 are Hitachi Maintenance units
1 is on planned modifications
9 are diagrammed in traffic by LNER/are spare

 

[800001]

There’s a 5-car operating to Edinburgh today, due to a unit shortage.

Of the 13x 9-car Bi-mode units, each day:

1 is under repairs
2 are Hitachi Maintenance units
1 is on planned modifications
9 are diagrammed in traffic by LNER/are spare

The 5 car was not technically a unit shortage, it was diagrammed as 2 x 5 car, but Bounds Green made a mistake and didn't realise it needed 2 units coupling together.
Only identified when lner driver turned up and only a 5 car sat there, wasn't enough time then to get other 5 car moved and joined up.

It was on all the paperwork, planning etc that it was meant to be a 10 car set.

 

[43096]

There’s a 5-car operating to Edinburgh today, due to a unit shortage.

Of the 13x 9-car Bi-mode units, each day:

1 is under repairs
2 are Hitachi Maintenance units
1 is on planned modifications
9 are diagrammed in traffic by LNER/are spare

That’s 69% availability, which is utterly pathetic by any standards. It’s hard to avoid comparisons with the HST fleet where 14 out of 15 sets were diagrammed every day (93%) and 28 from 34 power cars (82% availability).

 

[800001]

That’s 69% availability, which is utterly pathetic by any standards. It’s hard to avoid comparisons with the HST fleet where 14 out of 15 sets were diagrammed every day (93%) and 28 from 34 power cars (82% availability).

True comparison is when 109 is back from repair, and in a few weeks when the last of the 800/1s has had luggage rack mods.
Then it will be 11 out of 13 available.

 

[43094]

My understanding (unless things have changed / are going to change) is that once 800109 & the mods unit are back, there will be 10/13 units diagrammed, as was the case previously?

 

[800001]

My understanding (unless things have changed / are going to change) is that once 800109 & the mods unit are back, there will be 10/13 units diagrammed, as was the case previously?

I apologise I don't know what previous availability was, I presumed it would be 11 when 109 and mods were back.

 

[43094]

Hmm, I’m doubting myself now, I thought there were 10 diagrams previously but can’t remember for certain.

I’ll check at some point!

 

[800001]

Hmm, I’m doubting myself now, I thought there were 10 diagrams previously but can’t remember for certain.

I’ll check at some point!

Sorry for casting the doubt

 

[dk1]

I have heard of them going up to Edinburgh even as a 5 car. Not ideal.

Mate of mine on an LNER departure from Edinburgh last week counted a total of 18 passengers & with Newcastle effectively locked down, not many more boarded there.

 

[TheBigD]

Hmm, I’m doubting myself now, I thought there were 10 diagrams previously but can’t remember for certain.

I’ll check at some point!

Unless it has been altered, it was originally...
26/30 9 car electric
10/13 9 car bimode
10/12 5 car electric
8/10 5 car bimode

 

[swt_passenger]

Unless it has been altered, it was originally...
26/30 9 car electric
10/13 9 car bimode
10/12 5 car electric
8/10 5 car bimode

Concur with those figures, it’s shown as exactly that in the VT track access application. Total 54/65 per day.

 

[43094]

Yes, that does sound like what I expected.

 

[43096]

Concur with those figures, it’s shown as exactly that in the VT track access application. Total 54/65 per day.

So 83% availability, which is roughly on a par with what the 40-year-old HST power cars were doing. Forgive me if I am somewhat underwhelmed, both by the actual number and by Hitachi's lack of confidence in its product by not committing to anything higher.

 

[TC60054]

Or perhaps it's more that they're desperate to run a reliable service for if anything goes wrong (stock related or not) by having a 17% spare & maintenance rather than squeezing the stock as thin as possible so that if something does go up the wall then the service has to be cancelled?
80-85% fleet utilization sounds about right to me.

 

[YorksLad12]

A thought: it's 83% availability now, but if they add more services in a few years times availability would need to increase, no? A case of better to have and don't need (yet) than need and don't have (in a couple of years)?

 

[swt_passenger]

A thought: it's 83% availability now, but if they add more services in a few years times availability would need to increase, no? A case of better to have and don't need (yet) than need and don't have (in a couple of years)?

They were already talking about ordering more AT300 based units to replace thone few 91/Mk4 sets that are basically retained for forthcoming extra services.

The trouble with having four sub fleets, each with their own agreed availability targets, is this is what will always happen. It‘s usually considered 85% is typical for a DMU, and 90% typical for a pure EMU, but you can’t really have fractions of units to force the numbers to fit those exact percentages...

 

[JonathanH]

Was the size of the IET fleet on the East Coast based on Agility Trains East providing a set number of diagrams and then working out how many trains to build to deliver that or based on a required number of built trains?

 

[swt_passenger]

Was the size of the IET fleet on the East Coast based on Agility Trains East providing a set number of diagrams and then working out how many trains to build to deliver that or based on a required number of built trains?

AIUI just like on GW the DfT asked for a number of diagrams to be covered, and then agreed the fleet size that Agility came up with.

 

[northernbelle]

So 83% availability, which is roughly on a par with what the 40-year-old HST power cars were doing. Forgive me if I am somewhat underwhelmed, both by the actual number and by Hitachi's lack of confidence in its product by not committing to anything higher.

Or perhaps it's a sensible availability target when factoring in appropriate maintenance regimes. All too often, the target availability for fleets is incredibly pressured and leads to a reactive regime rather than a proactive one. I don't think you can hold the LNER HST fleet up as a good example of maintenance regime - the condition of vehicles heading to EMT from LNER has generally been dreadful.

 

[High Dyke]

Had to laugh the other day. LNER apologising that "**** hours service is formed of 10 coaches today instead of 9 coaches."

 

[31160]

Will the KX Lincons be a 5 car when/if they start