LNER Advance prices reduced after purchase

[MKB]

I thought the mantra was that, barring any sales or special offers, the sooner you booked an Advance fare, the better, because of the limited number of seats made available to each Advance fare bucket.

So, I'm puzzled and a tad annoyed that two first-class seats I booked in early August to travel from Kings Cross to York in mid-October are today available for roughly £10 each less than I paid.

Of course LNER don't operate a price promise guarantee that actually has any use in most situations where it would be useful, like this one. (Unless anyone knows differently?)

It's not just my train that has reduced in fare, but several others on the same day now have lower Advance 1st fares than three weeks ago. What is going on? Is it now a deliberate LNER policy to dynamically price so that Advance prices can go down if sales are being made at a lower rate than predicted? (And that is achieved presumably by adding extra inventory back to Advance fare buckets that had previously sold out.)

 

[800Travel]

I thought the mantra was that, barring any sales or special offers, the sooner you booked an Advance fare, the better, because of the limited number of seats made available to each Advance fare bucket.

So, I'm puzzled and a tad annoyed that two first-class seats I booked in early August to travel from Kings Cross to York in mid-October are today available for roughly £10 each less than I paid.

Of course LNER don't operate a price promise guarantee that actually has any use in most situations where it would be useful, like this one. (Unless anyone knows differently?)

It's not just my train that has reduced in fare, but several others on the same day now have lower Advance 1st fares than three weeks ago. What is going on? Is it now a deliberate LNER policy to dynamically price so that Advance prices can go down if sales are being made at a lower rate than predicted? (And that is achieved presumably by adding extra inventory back to Advance fare buckets that had previously sold out.)

There was a thread around this a while ago, but I can't remember the title. Can't seem to find the page anymore, but on their website it used to say that cheaper tickets may become available if someone changed theirs for example.

 

[jfollows]

I thought the mantra was that, barring any sales or special offers, the sooner you booked an Advance fare, the better, because of the limited number of seats made available to each Advance fare bucket.

So, I'm puzzled and a tad annoyed that two first-class seats I booked in early August to travel from Kings Cross to York in mid-October are today available for roughly £10 each less than I paid.

Of course LNER don't operate a price promise guarantee that actually has any use in most situations where it would be useful, like this one. (Unless anyone knows differently?)

It's not just my train that has reduced in fare, but several others on the same day now have lower Advance 1st fares than three weeks ago. What is going on? Is it now a deliberate LNER policy to dynamically price so that Advance prices can go down if sales are being made at a lower rate than predicted? (And that is achieved presumably by adding extra inventory back to Advance fare buckets that had previously sold out.)

That's not how it works, it probably never has been, but with the time and effort the people responsible (and probably incented) for ticket pricing it's probably become more common that prices change with demand more now, in both directions.
Yes, the mantra should be "buy early" because prices will go up with demand, but it's not guaranteed as you've seen.
I suggest that if you were happy with the price you originally paid, then stop looking and be happy!

There have been earlier threads on the topic if you can find them.

 

[yorkie]

Yes; LNER claim this is not "normal"

However, it absolutely is normal for their 'extended horizon' fares to reduce after they are initially released.

LNER have to hope that a good solicitors firm don't get access to historical fares data, speak to experts from this forum and bring a legal case against them...

Book Advance Tickets

www.lner.co.uk

Cheaper tickets, same great journey. Book further in advance on the LNER website and app than anywhere else.
An Advance ticket is a single ticket for a specific train that you book in advance. There's a limited number of these tickets on any given train and the earlier you book, the cheaper the tickets will be!

Prices normally increase closer to travel, however, occasionally prices may go down, for various reasons. An example of this is if there is a seat sale.

This is, at best, misleading; at worst it's an absolute lie.

Do the majority of passengers on the LNER route buy direct from LNER? If so, LNER could be guilty of abusing a dominant market position, by appearing to use taxpayer funds to cross-subsidise their retail operations, with extensive advertising on trains and at stations instructing people to 'book direct', of which this idea of getting cheaper tickets further in advance is just part of a wider campaign of misleading information.

 

[PavlosA]

Yes, I had the same problem with EMR

Why do Advance fares decrease in price?

Hi all I recently received the ticket alert for advance tickets on 22 Sep 23 from Gravesend to Sheffield. I booked immediately for £40 (10.15 - 13.00) The next day the price was £29. I can see that I booked code 2FS and the cheaper ticket is 2DS. What's the logic behind cheaper batches being...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Hadders]

Train ticket pricing is getting at confusing as concert ticket pricing.

Let's hope the Government's promised investigation into concert ticket surge pricing practices is extended to include the rail industry's pricing tactics, as they seem to be lots of similarities these days.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Do the majority of passengers on the LNER route buy direct from LNER?

No they don't

 

[Merle Haggard]

Could this be described as 'dynamic pricing'?

 

[Starmill]

Unfortunately there's nothing you can do about this now. You just have to consider the possibility of this happening in the future and try to made a decision with your eyes open to the possibility.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It's not just my train that has reduced in fare, but several others on the same day now have lower Advance 1st fares than three weeks ago. What is going on? Is it now a deliberate LNER policy to dynamically price so that Advance prices can go down if sales are being made at a lower rate than predicted?

It's been discussed on here before that it looks as though LNER don't load the cheapest tiers into the advanced booking horizon. I don't know if that's true or not, and LNER would never admit it even if it were true, but it certainly seems plausible.

Otherwise it can happen if people have advance tickets in their basket and then choose not to purchase them. The system holds the ticket whilst it is in their basket and, if they don't clear the basket before they close their browser/app, it will continue to be held for several hours afterwards.

Beyond that, it's the same as everything in life. Once you've committed at a price point you agree with, don't go back and look again later. Disappointment usually ensues.

 

[MKB]

Booking on 12 August for travel on 17 October shouldn't have been within extended booking horizons, should it?

The fare I paid (£61.95 using Two-Together Railcard) came from bucket OCQ, and this was showing for my train consistently for a few days before I booked, so this isn't a case of inventory being assigned in baskets but not purchased and later released back to inventory.

Following the fares increase effective from 28 September, the current fare (£52.70) comes from bucket OBZ, two buckets down from OCQ. Of the last five direct LNER trains on 17 October, my best recollection is that three of them have come down in price since 12 August (but not 100% sure on that).

It's useful to understand LNER pricing policy for future reference, as I only travel with them a couple of times a year so my experience is limited. I had no idea there was any chance they would release additional inventory in lower Advance fare buckets. If they wanted to design a system to discourage people from committing and booking, they are doing a great job!

 

[TUC]

It's like any other product. You buy an item, only find it has reduced in price the following week. Why should rail be any different?

 

[MKB]

It's like any other product. You buy an item, only find it has reduced in price the following week. Why should rail be any different?

Because it's a public service.
Because LNER have a monopoly on late-night services.
Because LNER state "the earlier you book, the cheaper the tickets will be".

 

[yorkie]

It's like any other product. You buy an item, only find it has reduced in price the following week. Why should rail be any different?

If LNER update their website to say exactly this, and be up front about it, and stop telling people to book further in advance "directly" from them, then sure, I'd have no problem!

It's the underhand tactics that bother me!

Because it's a public service.
Because LNER have a monopoly on late-night services.
Because LNER state "the earlier you book, the cheaper the tickets will be".

Well said!

 

[Starmill]

It's like any other product. You buy an item, only find it has reduced in price the following week. Why should rail be any different?

All franchised passenger train services in this country have been very heavily subsidised by public money in the past few years, so it's reasonable to at least ask the question.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Do the majority of passengers on the LNER route buy direct from LNER?

No they don't

I assume the majority of LNER passengers buy from the Trainline?

 

[Adam Williams]

Is there anything preventing a change of journey refund onto the same train?

Oh, ignore this - it's a dumb thing to even say. You won't get the difference back.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Because it's a public service.
Because LNER have a monopoly on late-night services.
Because LNER state "the earlier you book, the cheaper the tickets will be".

They put enough weasel words to get out of the last bit though. Normally they will be cheaper, but occasionally they may not be.

As for the other two bits, if the TOC identify that they've misread the market, surely it is better for them to rectify this by reducing prices in order to attract sales and increase revenue?

Given LNER's "simplified fares trial", I have more of an issue with this:


I think a lot of the issues do come back to the advanced booking horizon though. If LNER put all the cheapest tier into the advanced booking horizon then passengers who have to use a connecting train are disadvantaged as the cheapest tiers will be sold out by the time they can book in the normal booking horizon. But clearly the OP's situation is very frustrating too. I don't know if the advanced booking horizon applies to the OP but it doesn't look as though it should.

It's the same as with flights, hotels, whatever; once you've booked don't look back. It only ever leads to disappointment. Unless you have a booking which allows a fee-free refund.

 

[yorkie]

LNER want people to believe that buying through sites such as our site, is more expensive; in reality, we aren't more expensive and it is often the case that we undercut LNER's fares for their longer distance 'premium' journeys.

 

[Ming]

I thought the mantra was that, barring any sales or special offers, the sooner you booked an Advance fare, the better, because of the limited number of seats made available to each Advance fare bucket.

So, I'm puzzled and a tad annoyed that two first-class seats I booked in early August to travel from Kings Cross to York in mid-October are today available for roughly £10 each less than I paid.

Of course LNER don't operate a price promise guarantee that actually has any use in most situations where it would be useful, like this one. (Unless anyone knows differently?)

It's not just my train that has reduced in fare, but several others on the same day now have lower Advance 1st fares than three weeks ago. What is going on? Is it now a deliberate LNER policy to dynamically price so that Advance prices can go down if sales are being made at a lower rate than predicted? (And that is achieved presumably by adding extra inventory back to Advance fare buckets that had previously sold out.)

Is there genuinely an issue with the LNER Rail Price Optimiser system??? I have been following the ticket prices available on the app for some time now. There was an issue back in 2015/16 when they first introduced this after taking over from Virgin. The Price optimiser's algo was updated back then, but recently the old issues seem to be raising their head again. Even booking in advance 3/4/5 weeks I have struggled to get the correct price for an advance or any ticket for that matter via their app. Travelling from Alnmouth to London Kings Cross the average single ticket should be (£57.60 - £60), I have only been able to obtain one ticket at this price in the last 4 years. last Monday is a good example a single to LKX from Alnmouth was £116.70 for a 6pm train, the same train and journey from Newcastle was £63 single, making the 23 minute journey from Alnmouth to Newcastle amount £53.70, yet a single from Alnmouth to Newcastle on that same journey was £6.20. This has been a recurring theme over the past year now and if I was a customer who had no idea they could split tickets like that would essentially be overpaying by £47.5, the same issue occurs on both sides of the journey and it mounts up when this is a weekly journey. Has anyone else seen issues like this on other journeys with LNER or is it Alnmouth as a specific station which is encountering this issue?

 

[30907]

last Monday is a good example a single to LKX from Alnmouth was £116.70 for a 6pm train, the same train and journey from Newcastle was £63 single, making the 23 minute journey from Alnmouth to Newcastle amount £53.70, yet a single from Alnmouth to Newcastle on that same journey was £6.20.

The same applies for travel tonight (under 2hr ahead as I write): no Advance from Alnmouth, while there is from Newcastle on the same train.
Whereas looking at Monday next, Advances are available on both at similar prices to those you would expect.
It may be that Alnmouth tickets are affected by sales from Edinburgh (I doubt EDB-ALM is as big a market as ALM-The South), but that's just a guess.

 

[Wallsendmag]

The same applies for travel tonight (under 2hr ahead as I write): no Advance from Alnmouth, while there is from Newcastle on the same train.
Whereas looking at Monday next, Advances are available on both at similar prices to those you would expect.
It may be that Alnmouth tickets are affected by sales from Edinburgh (I doubt EDB-ALM is as big a market as ALM-The South), but that's just a guess.

What may be affecting it is Edinburgh to Newcastle.