LNER Air-Con Dispute

[bussnapperwm]

As part of an FOI I made to LNER, this may be of interest to the OP (from the internal Customer Service staff training questionnaire)

"Would you offer any compensation or gesture of goodwill for an AC failure which has been confirmed on the Daily Logs or Disruption Calendar? If yes, please clarify what we would offer the customer

"Yes, if proof of the failure is stated or recorded by LNER, we would offer a complementary journey of the same class"

I've attached a photograph of the quoted section below

 

[142blue]

So as the air con issues not being reported by the guard it means that the OP is meant to suffer poor travel conditions with no complimentary water given even as a basic.

Sorry but I'd be unhappy with that too

 

[najaB]

So as the air con issues not being reported by the guard it means that the OP is meant to suffer poor travel conditions with no complimentary water given even as a basic.

No. Complementary water would be a decision made by the catering lead on the day. The guard (apparently) not reporting the fault means that there's no record on which to base compensation after the fact. Please don't conflate two completely separate (though related) issues.

 

[PG87]

In the end I left this as I didn't fancy a lengthy debate with a rail operator. But strangely they got back in touch, unsolicited, and offered a goodwill voucher. Seems if the guard had reported it it would have been full compensation. Still, better than nothing.

 

[kristiang85]

I remember a few years back getting a train in Thailand once and the air con failed. On arrival in Chaing Mai, they were handing out vouchers for us to reclaim half our fare without anybody even asking.

Yes, Thailand is hotter than here and AC is a necessity, but when the temperature is over 30c here its a similar issue and if the trend of hot summers is going to continue, there should be a mandatory compensation service for passengers in the NCoT.

SWR have been terrible this summer with their AC provision, but at the moment there is no incentive to fix it.

 

[Starmill]

If making a long distance journey andthe train has no air conditioning available in my coach and there is no space for me to sit elsewhere, then I would expect, as a absolute bare minimum:
- an apology
- complimentary water
- the offer to be conveyed instead by the next available train, or the one after that if that one also has failed air conditioning or is overcrowded, and so on

It's not clear if the OP was or wasn't offered these.

I had to rewrite this post several times to avoid being potentially insulting.

What a bizarre thing to admit to. Surely that's better kept to yourself?

 

[some bloke]

strangely they got back in touch, unsolicited, and offered a goodwill voucher.

The explanation may be that they saw this thread.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I think some people find it difficult to adapt their mindset from the railway of yore - where all you got was carriage from A to B, possibly in squalid conditions - to the modern-day situation where passengers rightly expect a service that is not only safe and punctual, but where, if they are to stand, they can at least do so in reasonable comfort without sweating their clothes off.

The concept of "reasonable care and skill" is something whose implications the railway industry I think has yet to fully consider and implement.

 

[Hadders]

I think some people find it difficult to adapt their mindset from the railway of yore - where all you got was carriage frm A to B, possibly in squalid conditions - to the modern-day situation where passengers rightly expect a service that is not only safe and punctual, but where, if they are to stand, they can at least do so in reasonable comfort without sweating their clothes off.

The concept of "reasonable care and skill" is something whose implications the railway industry I think has yet to fully consider and implement.

Have you travelled on Shambleslink or the Underground recently...

 

[Starmill]

[/QUOTE]

Have you travelled on Shambleslink or the Underground recently...

While you are absolutely right about this, you might not be able to make the case that standing in very cramped conditions for 20 minutes on London Underground is failure to deliver a service 'with reasonable care and skill'.

However, in my view it is very clear that standing for 4h 30 for London to Edinburgh, on a very hot day on a train with failed air conditioning (and no emergency ventilation on an IC225) is a failure to deliver the service 'with reasonable care and skill'. There is then everything that goes in between to argue over.

 

[JN114]

What constitutes “Reasonable Care and Skill” still appears not to have been tested or defined.

The provision of Air Conditioning isn’t, that I can see, an advertised feature of the services. Thus air con or not they’ve provided what they’re advertising; which is the whole crux of the Consumer Rights legislation.

 

[najaB]

However, in my view it is very clear that standing for 4h 30 for London to Edinburgh, on a very hot day on a train with failed air conditioning (and no emergency ventilation on an IC225) is a failure to deliver the service 'with reasonable care and skill'

I suppose they could always have cancelled the service...

 

[Wallsendmag]

I suppose they could always have cancelled the service...

That was the option taken several times this summer.

 

[TPO]

I think some people find it difficult to adapt their mindset from the railway of yore - where all you got was carriage from A to B, possibly in squalid conditions - to the modern-day situation where passengers rightly expect a service that is not only safe and punctual, but where, if they are to stand, they can at least do so in reasonable comfort without sweating their clothes off.

The concept of "reasonable care and skill" is something whose implications the railway industry I think has yet to fully consider and implement.

Spot on.

Unfortunately, when it comes to quality and customer/passenger service, the GB rail industry is still stuck somewhere circa 1979...........

If the rail sector insists on using rolling stock which is locked shut all around, then it's absolutely critical that they maintain the HVAC to work reliably. It's not rocket science to do that, but unfortunately requires having sufficient maintenance resource, i.e. there is a financial incentive to not maintain HVAC reliably and no penalty when passengers suffer as a consequence. It also requires a little more of learning from past failures than was shown with the IEP sets over the summer...........

TPO

 

[Basher]

I find this thread very interesting, after been on many class 158 units and the AC not working. Could we all passengers; make a claim against Northern Rail?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I find this thread very interesting, after been on many class 158 units and the AC not working. Could we all passengers; make a claim against Northern Rail?

It depends - could you firstly evidence this (that you were on such services and that the fault existed), and could you show that it represented a lack of reasonable care and skill? If yes to both, then possibly. If no to either then it may be a difficult claim to make and you would be best off asking for a gesture of goodwill. However, such a gesture would be unusual for most TOCs unless the conditions were exceptionally unbearable (or you had some kind of medical condition which made this worse, or was made worse by this).

 

[sheff1]

I find this thread very interesting, after been on many class 158 units and the AC not working. Could we all passengers; make a claim against Northern Rail?

I assume, as you mention Northern, that the "class 158 units" are the 2-car trains they use. In my experience, if the air-con fails in hot weather on one of those the guard will open the small windows situated at points along the coach. This provides a refreshing breeze - a bit too refreshing at times when the outside temperature has dropped and then I ask the guard to close them ! Seems reasonable enough and certainly better than cancelling a service.

 

[Bungle965]

I assume, as you mention Northern, that the "class 158 units" are the 2-car trains they use. In my experience, if the air-con fails in hot weather on one of those the guard will open the small windows situated at points along the coach. This provides a refreshing breeze - a bit too refreshing at times when the outside temperature has dropped and then I ask the guard to close them ! Seems reasonable enough and certainly better than cancelling a service.

Northern have both 2 and 3 car variants of 158s, often there are times where the guards are as much at fault as anyone else. Simply opening up the hopper windows at the slightest hint of it being too warm. This breaks the what was working air conditioning on the train. In hot weather when the unit is sat engine off, slowly cooking, it is obviously going to be stiflingly hot inside the train.
I have had it on a 158 leaving Sheffield a guard coming through and opening all of the hopper windows in the carriage, when asked if the air conditioning is broken she simply looked at me and said "what air-conditioning?"
Of course there are often times where the air conditioning is indeed broken, the 158s air conditioning required a type of gas which I believe is now banned and the alternatives seem to prove temperamental. In the summer that we have just said the hopper windows that are in the 158s have sometimes simply not been enough and the carriages have still been baking.
Sam