LNER Azuma (Class 800/801)

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by snowball, 28 Sep 2018.

  1. snowball

    snowball Established Member

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    Roger Ford has four pages (30-33) in the new (October) Modern Railways on electromagnetic compatibility issues with class 80x and signalling/telecoms equipment.
     
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  3. Japan0913

    Japan0913 Member

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  4. absolutelymilk

    absolutelymilk Established Member

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    Someone added Class 802 without a source, I've reverted it
     
  5. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Veteran Member

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    The necessary upgrades to the northern ECML to allow the desired number of LNER, TPE and First electric services have not been scheduled yet, so the start dates are also unconfirmed.
    NR also has to sort out the signalling interference problem to allow Class 80x to operate on electric north of Doncaster.
     
  6. Chuggington21

    Chuggington21 Member

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    I've heard there could be a major delay with the Azumas because of the interference. But surely for TPE and 802s going Edinburgh to York it shouldn't be an issue as they could just run as diesel??
     
  7. 59CosG95

    59CosG95 Established Member

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    The interference is caused by the asynchronous motors on the units, which would be in operarion whether a unit was running on AC or diesel.
    The problem is likely to be solved by Christmas (or so I've been told on't grapevine), as the problem lies with York IECC, which uses older solid-state interlockings that fall foul of the harmonics given off by the motors (and at Colton Jct, the traction return current). Over the Christmas Period, the IECC is due to transfer to the more modern ROC at York, where signals will be immunised against the specific 80x frequency.

    So no - the issue won't apply to TPE as the problems will all hopefully be ironed out at the turn of the year.
     
  8. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

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    If that was the case then surely they'd be have been completely forbidden from running, rather than just a restriction that forces them to run on Diesel
     
  9. cactustwirly

    cactustwirly Established Member

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    The initial diagrams in December are to Hull and Leeds anyway...
     
  10. SansHache

    SansHache Member

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    The issue is caused by the high frequency harmonics in the primary return current. This is a consequence of the switching of the input converters rather than the Traction 3-phase inverter. When opersting in diesel mode there is no return current through the rails so far less likely to be an issue.
    Train performance in diesel and electric modes is a different matter though and could cause timetable issues.
     
  11. jyte

    jyte Member

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    Aren't York IECC and ROC in the same building?
     
  12. 59CosG95

    59CosG95 Established Member

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    They are, yes, but the ECML north of York uses an older form of interlocking than that used on the line towards Leeds. Once the interlocking is replaced over Xmas, the IECC's control of the ECML north of York will move to the ROC, and the problems *should* sort themselves out.
     
  13. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Veteran Member

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    That would be true if it was a full resignalling, but might well not apply if the change is simply a recontrol of existing interlockings.
    Roger Ford seemed to think there were several places from Colton Jn up to Edinburgh which will need additional kit installed.
     
    Last edited: 1 Oct 2018
  14. JN114

    JN114 Established Member

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    No they’re not.

    York IECC is the older (1990s) building behind/alongside Platform 11. Memory tells me it’s a blue corrugated metal building but I might be misremembering the colour... That contains the workstations for York (2), and the Leeds area (4).

    York ROC was built in a new, adjacent compound further South; and signals various areas - I forget the full list but it definitely includes Sheffield. York ROC also houses the various “control” functions for LNE route.
     
  15. Chuggington21

    Chuggington21 Member

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    Yeah and December 19 to Edinburgh?
     
  16. 59CosG95

    59CosG95 Established Member

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    Ah, my apologies. I had no idea they were in distinctly separate buildings. Either way, the Leeds interlockings are unaffected by the 80x units, while the York ones are affected.
     
  17. SC43090

    SC43090 Member

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    Come hell or high water the Hull KX & its associated diagrams will go over to IEP..... Note there's every chance it could go over before the timetable change.....

    SC43090
     
  18. IanXC

    IanXC Emeritus Moderator

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  19. 3973EXL

    3973EXL Member

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    800109 returning to Doncaster today.

    5X81 Eastleigh to Acton ML leg approaching Twyford West.
    DSC01522.JPG
     
  20. BowesRanger

    BowesRanger Member

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    A unit parked up to the west of the mainline at Hornsey this morning.

    The plain Grey is a little dull right now, you'd have to say
     
  21. Waverleystu

    Waverleystu Member

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    Are there any plans for 800 testing north of Edinburgh anytime soon?
     
  22. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    It doesn't look as if it'll get much better in practice either. Unlike East Coast which had some sort of livery even if rather dull, LNER seems to be simply a placeholder graphic for when the private operator takes over a year later when presumably their livery gets applied. What's the betting that they won't want to waste time repainting units that age and we end up with white 800s on East Coast until that franchise inevitably goes down the pan as well gets renewed?
     
  23. SPADTrap

    SPADTrap Established Member

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    And the problems with the brakes not applying. Top quality kit.
     
  24. Dave1987

    Dave1987 Established Member

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    Now now you know the rules, thou shalt not criticise IEP! <D
     
  25. sprinterguy

    sprinterguy Established Member

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    Unlike persistent incorrect rumours with other TOC identities, the LNER brand has actually been stated by the DfT to be the intended identity of the East Coast operation for years to come, regardless of operator.
     
  26. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    I did suspect this was the case, but if that's true then the choice of using an 'interim' livery is even more strange. Budgetary constraint perhaps?
     
  27. sprinterguy

    sprinterguy Established Member

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    Pretty much. The reasoning was set out here:
     
  28. InterCity:125

    InterCity:125 Member

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    Does anyone know when the first one will be running with LNER?
     
  29. SC43090

    SC43090 Member

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    As it stands it should be at the start of the December timetable change.... The service to go over is the Hull KX / KX Leeds / Leeds KX / KX Hull / Hull Doncaster.... Iv'e been told that it could go over to IET the week before the timetable change.....

    SC43090
     
  30. 43094

    43094 Member

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    Planned to be 1A12 0700 HUL - KGX on 4 December at the moment. Subject to change, etc etc
     
    Last edited: 8 Oct 2018
  31. 1179_Clee2

    1179_Clee2 Member

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    New RAIL magazine 863 (headline on cover)

    ORR suspends approval for LNER IEPs-
    yet Great Western IEPs remain in use

    ORR spokesman Simon Belgard told RAIL " We can confirm that we have paused the granting of further authorisations to place Hitachi IEPs in service. The reason for this is the inter-car connectors and the possibility they could be used as a ladder to climb on the vehicle roof "
    No Class 800/801 can be used by LNER until newly identified safety issues have been addressed, potentially jeopardising the planned introduction of the fleet this December.
     

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