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LNER Azuma (Class 800/801)

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samuelmorris

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It makes sense to displace the HSTs last. Although I don't think that was the original plan and they are of course older, they are to a similar standard in terms of how reliable they are and in what state of repair they are in. Some of the Mk4 sets are already needed with other TOCs, whereas there is no requirement for any of LNER's HSTs at this stage due to the number that have come from GWR, already displaced by their 800s.
There will inevitably be issues with 800s reaching certain places, so the stock you want to have on standby is the one that can cover any LNER route, i.e. the HST, not the electric-only 91/Mk4 sets that can cover just most of them.
 
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cactustwirly

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They delay was a mixture of the cables but more importantly the signal interference has been the factor that put paid to the introduction as expected.

But that only occurs north of York doesn't it?
Anyway Hitachi quickly found a solution for that on the GWR sets.
So I don't see what the holdup is?
 

samuelmorris

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But that only occurs north of York doesn't it?
Anyway Hitachi quickly found a solution for that on the GWR sets.
So I don't see what the holdup is?
As far as I know that's where the issue was first identified but I think it affects several areas and the fix is much more complex. In GWR's area a single piece of faulty equipment was changed - here, both the trackside equipment for tens of miles of track and every train already manufactured are having to be fairly substantially modified. The signalling systems on the LNER route are more susceptible to interference but given the trains' interference levels are grossly excessive (even if compliant with the spec DfT originally provided), they too are being modified with suppression devices, which are large and heavy things.
 

ainsworth74

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But that only occurs north of York doesn't it?
Anyway Hitachi quickly found a solution for that on the GWR sets.
So I don't see what the holdup is?

Joan Croft Junction (just north of Doncaster) northwards is the effected area. And whilst a solution was found for the GWML as has been covered extensively on this thread and in the railway media at large (Roger Ford in Modern Railway's and I believe RAIL have both covered it) the situation on the ECML is more complex and requires the fitment of Isolating Surge Protection Units to the Solid State Interlockings in the effected areas. Coupled to an on-train solution as well (I believe the addition of a whacking great lump of metal that does 'stuff' to reduce the problem emissions).

It is far more complex than what was required on the GWML.

Couple that to the issues that the ORR have with the units from a safety perspective in relation to the intra-vehicle cables (which grounded parts of the fleet for a while a few weeks ago) then it's no surprise that the introduction has been delayed.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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This is of course the reverse of what the DfT intended when it ordered the trains and let the VTEC franchise.
The first order of East Coast IEPs (bi-modes) was to replace the HSTs, with the second tranche, for which the order was placed later, to replace the 225s.
HSTs have to be off the premises by the end of 2019, to avoid PRM issues.
Best laid plans and all that!
 

a_c_skinner

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Apologies if I've missed this what is the situation with the between car jumper cables issue now?

Andrew
 

_toommm_

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Apologies if I've missed this what is the situation with the between car jumper cables issue now?

Andrew

Theres concerns that they can effectively be used as a ladder for people to climb up, and with most of LNER route being electrified, it poses issues to potential train surfing, or accidental and purposeful electrocution.
 

jimm

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I think the question was more about whether a solution to this had been found now, not what the ORR's concerns about the cables were in the first place.
 

a_c_skinner

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To clarify, yes. I knew the fear (allowing for these vehicles being in passenger service on GWR and a not dissimilar arrangement on 390s, I think), I was wondering about where the issue was going. Is it just the East coast of Scotland where people climb vehicles?
 

superkev

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Theres concerns that they can effectively be used as a ladder for people to climb up, and with most of LNER route being electrified, it poses issues to potential train surfing, or accidental and purposeful electrocution.
I don't see an easy solution other than some sort of fudge like warning labels.
Sad that a train has to be built for the safety Taliban do there thing. Can't they read drawings or computer simulations. Dosent seem to be any appeal process either.
And slightly off topic has anyone looked at other types of new trains which all need intercoach connections of some sort.
K
K
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Today an LNER staff member said they’ve just been “reliably informed” this week that Azumas are to be delayed to 2020... Is this true?!
 

cactustwirly

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Today an LNER staff member said they’ve just been “reliably informed” this week that Azumas are to be delayed to 2020... Is this true?!

Can't be true!
None of the current stock is PRM compliant, therefore can't be used after 31/12/2019
 

Darandio

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Can't be true!
None of the current stock is PRM compliant, therefore can't be used after 31/12/2019

But we all know that isn't going to make an iota of difference come 01/01/2020 when many items of rolling stock will be given dispensation to run.
 

samuelmorris

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Today an LNER staff member said they’ve just been “reliably informed” this week that Azumas are to be delayed to 2020... Is this true?!
They'll certainly be delivering them well into 2020 but not having any in service by then seems unlikely. Definitely not impossible though, there are a lot of hurdles to overcome before they can be used in service - it's probably going to be Summer at the earliest I suspect.
 
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I notice that there is no indication of where the windows are and, therefore, which seats line up with them?
Last night I was speaking to the absolutely lovely train manager on my LNER service last night, and she told me that when the Azumas enter service, LNER will first use them to withdraw all of the Intercity 225 sets before then starting on the HSTs (the VP185s being first).

I’m not going to lie, this filled me with horror
It fills me with joy, being north of Edinburgh.
 

cactustwirly

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They've had the accessible toilets and the door sounders already. They're near enough PRM compliant to probably be allowed to stay on.

They need destination screens, more priority seats and a few other mods.
It's a moot point as the 800 introduction will be pretty fast, once it gets going
 

DanNCL

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They need destination screens, more priority seats and a few other mods.
It's a moot point as the 800 introduction will be pretty fast, once it gets going
They've already got several priority seats in each coach and they have the increased legroom required for priority seats. They're also in the process of being fitted with screens. They will be suitably modified for continued use beyond the end of the year.
Which it appears it's not going to do any time soon...
 

cactustwirly

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They've already got several priority seats in each coach and they have the increased legroom required for priority seats. They're also in the process of being fitted with screens. They will be suitably modified for continued use beyond the end of the year.
Which it appears it's not going to do any time soon...

I thought they're getting introduced next month.
Since LNER has a smaller fleet than GWR(intercity), and the vast majority of GWR HST services have been replaced in just over a year, I think we'll be looking at an all IET fleet this time next year!
 

DanNCL

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I thought they're getting introduced next month.
Since LNER has a smaller fleet than GWR (intercity) and the vast majority of HST services have been replaced in just over a year
Confirmed by whom? There's been no official confirmation of that, it's just been rumours.
Doesn't change the fact that the 800s are unlikely be entering service any time soon.
 

cactustwirly

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Confirmed by whom? There's been no official confirmation of that, it's just been rumours.
Doesn't change the fact that the 800s are unlikely be entering service any time soon.

Why not? The sets are being modified, and the cable issue is a very minor issue
 

cactustwirly

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It doesn't matter if it's a minor issue - they've not been approved for use with the cable issue, and that won't change.

It is though! It was minor enough to get them approved for the GWML.
 

Jonny

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Is the cable/ladder issue as a barrier to acceptance confined to the LNER Azuma Class 801s? I would have thought that the 800s would have type approval from being allowed to run with GWR. I'm also surprised that approval wasn't grandfathered over from the GWR 800s, given that they seem to be safe enough in practice.
 

Jonny

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And as an afterthought, is there a possibility that the TPE Nova 1s (Class 802) will run in service first?
 
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