LNER Azuma (Class 800/801)

[samuelmorris]

Good to hear. At least somebody out there likes them!

 

[JP]

Watching these things go through Finsbury Park leaves me dreading journeys on them. They’ve got the same clinical bright white interiors as the Thameslink Class 700 and dreary grey seats which looks very harsh. They certainly don’t look like a nice place to spend the 3 hours or so on my regular LNER trips.

 

[ash39]

Watching these things go through Finsbury Park leaves me dreading journeys on them. They’ve got the same clinical bright white interiors as the Thameslink Class 700 and dreary grey seats which looks very harsh. They certainly don’t look like a nice place to spend the 3 hours or so on my regular LNER trips.

Sadly I think you're right.

Most people bang on about the seats, but the lighting is more of an issue for me. I don't want to look at my reflection for 3 hours!

Would much prefer to have dimmed ambient lighting, with strip lights along gangways for safety, and switchable reading lights should you need/want them. Ironically, some trains I've noticed are fitted with these but they are totally redundant when the ambient lighting is as bright as it is.

 

[800001]

Watching these things go through Finsbury Park leaves me dreading journeys on them. They’ve got the same clinical bright white interiors as the Thameslink Class 700 and dreary grey seats which looks very harsh. They certainly don’t look like a nice place to spend the 3 hours or so on my regular LNER trips.

LNER will not have the grey seats. Red for Standard. As for lighting......watch this space

 

[samuelmorris]

I share the common dislike about the seats but I haven't found the lighting too bad. It's less clinical than the 700s even on the GWR 800s, let alone the LNER ones which have a more coloured interior.

 

[BRX]

Watching these things go through Finsbury Park leaves me dreading journeys on them. They’ve got the same clinical bright white interiors as the Thameslink Class 700 and dreary grey seats which looks very harsh. They certainly don’t look like a nice place to spend the 3 hours or so on my regular LNER trips.

Spare a thought for those us whose LNER trips are usually 8 hours long!

 

[westv]

I see on the their website that LNER no longer mention Hull to London as being the first service. It's now London to Leeds.

 

[Mollman]

I see on the their website that LNER no longer mention Hull to London as being the first service. It's now London to Leeds.

I think it is part of the same diagram, just will have a few more trips to Leeds than Hull.

 

[a_c_skinner]

Does anyone know what is happening about those cables?

 

[387star]

Thought seats are

Spare a thought for those us whose LNER trips are usually 8 hours long!

Thought seats would be red

 

[387star]

LNER will not have the grey seats. Red for Standard. As for lighting......watch this space

I definitely saw an LNER unit with grey seats

 

[mullac30]

I definitely saw an LNER unit with grey seats

Like TPE, some of the LNER initial testing units from Japan (i think) come with the "standard" grey IEP interior, like what you saw, but NO units will enter revenue service with thar interior. Infact there is an 801 going around with its seats stipped to its frame and carpets removed prior to it being fitted with the new red .

 

[tomglazed]

Like TPE, some of the LNER initial testing units from Japan (i think) come with the "standard" grey IEP interior, like what you saw, but NO units will enter revenue service with thar interior. Infact there is an 801 going around with its seats stipped to its frame and carpets removed prior to it being fitted with the new red .

From the write ups the seats get in GWR land, saying they’re currently stripped down to their frame sounds little different to their in-revenue service state anyway!

It’s a shame to see the delays occurring to do with electronic signal interference as well as the cabling issue. Not being the most engineering minded, what sort of equipment could help shield/stop the interference or is it a case of a whole replacement of components producing the interference on Azuma’s?

 

[hooverboy]

as I understand it the motors on the train are causing the problem, giving off RF that is in the band that the signals pick up.
If you know the specific frequency you wish to receive and which you do not,it's pretty easily sorted out with the addition of a filter into the signalling system to cut out any unwanted spurious

It's a very common problem in telecoms.

the other alternative would be to "shroud" the motors in ferrite loaded silicone.

In the RF/Microwave industry we use this stuff in anachoic chambers all the time, for precisely this reason.
Under test,we need to be certain that only signals being given off by devices are processed and analyzed,and no external sources are present.

in the azuma case, it's the reverse process....you want to stop signals being given off so you make a shield to stop them getting out.

 

[tomglazed]

Thank you for the clear and informed reply!

With the cabling issue, to avoid anything as substantial as a complete re-engineering to move/combine the cabling and connection boxes in such a way to remove the “cable ladder”, is there any solutions which have been investigated, trialled or accepted that is palitable to the safety demons?

Anything like or a combination of:
- Silicone or other flaring material to reduce the carriage join gap
- Anti-climb/grip coating or covering of the cables
- Sufficiently angled coverings of the connection boxes

 

[sprinterguy]

as I understand it the motors on the train are causing the problem, giving off RF that is in the band that the signals pick up.

It's not the motors that are seemingly to blame, but the transformers.

It’s a shame to see the delays occurring to do with electronic signal interference as well as the cabling issue. Not being the most engineering minded, what sort of equipment could help shield/stop the interference or is it a case of a whole replacement of components producing the interference on Azuma’s?

The solution was described in Modern Railways in November and quoted on page 10 of this thread, and involves modifications to both the lineside signalling and the Driving Pantograph Trailers of the units:

According to Informed Sources the solution is to add the reactance that is missing from the Class 800 transformers. As explained last month this will involve fitting a choke (coils of copper wire on an iron core) between the transformer and the traction converter under each Driving Pantograph Transformer cars.

This raises a number of issues. Assuming space can be found in the under-frame area, and that strong enough mounting points are available, the next question is weight. I would expect a choke to weigh between one and two tonnes.
Meanwhile, Network Rail has ordered 270 Isolating Surge Protection Units (ISPU) to cover the known weakness in the Solid-State Interlocking (SSI)signalling on the ECML. These should be ready for fitting to start in January.

 

[samuelmorris]

It's not the motors that are seemingly to blame, but the transformers.

The solution was described in Modern Railways in November and quoted on page 10 of this thread, and involves modifications to both the lineside signalling and the Driving Pantograph Trailers of the units:

I thought it was the traction inverters at fault, and hence the frequency emissions came out at the traction motor end, hence every powered vehicle being modified. The quotation above suggests I may have misremembered/been misinformed about that. I recall a specific weight of 750kg being quoted, but I was sure that was per powered vehicle and thus 2.25t for a 5-car unit.

I've heard nothing about the cable ladder problem at all, but all of those suggestions seem reasonable. I think the idea should probably simply be to narrow the gap to the point you can't get a foot in there, as it is on other units with 'laddered' connectors.

 

[800001]

I definitely saw an LNER unit with grey seats

LNER seats will be red!!!. Grey seats will not be in use when they are accepted and on service with LNER.

Sets running around at the moment have not being accepted by LNER, several sets have o seats at all in!

 

[trebor79]

The seat colour is of no consequence. Red fabric won't make them any more comfortable.

 

[Grandnat]

The seat colour is of no consequence. Red fabric won't make them any more comfortable.

Is it just a red version of the same cloth fabric or is it a moquette like on the current LNER trains?

 

[tomglazed]

Is it just a red version of the same cloth fabric or is it a moquette like on the current LNER trains?

From images I saw of a First Class seat being used for marketing photography, that appeared to feature a Moquette covering as opposed to standard cloth seen thus far at GWR. Maybe I’m optimistic but if that’s been done for the 1st Class seats, then someone would think to do the same for Standard also? Recent PR output certainly suggests they’re aware of the current criticism and trying to deflect or prepare.

 

[Grandnat]

From images I saw of a First Class seat being used for marketing photography, that appeared to feature a Moquette covering as opposed to standard cloth seen thus far at GWR. Maybe I’m optimistic but if that’s been done for the 1st Class seats, then someone would think to do the same for Standard also? Recent PR output certainly suggests they’re aware of the current criticism and trying to deflect or prepare.

Fingers crossed. It will make a huge difference.

 

[800001]

Is it just a red version of the same cloth fabric or is it a moquette like on the current LNER trains?

For anyone out and about on the Ecml during the week, 800103 is often out on test trains, this has the full new lner spec seats fitted, ie Red in standard and Ox Blood in 1st class

Not seen any pictures published other than one that the marketing manager tweeted.

I have seen the seats in the factory at Aycliffe, and they feel different to the grey seats. Unable to sit on them, so can't compare the firmness.

 

[samuelmorris]

Is it just a red version of the same cloth fabric or is it a moquette like on the current LNER trains?

It's a red version of the covers used on 800/3s and 802s, not the original GWR 800/0s (this one - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_802#/media/File:Class_802_Interior.jpg )

 

[Class455]

Just seen a photo taken last week of two LNER Class 800's down at Eastleigh Works, any idea what they're doing down there?

Surely it can't be too much longer before the first one is in service

 

[800001]

Just seen a photo taken last week of two LNER Class 800's down at Eastleigh Works, any idea what they're doing down there?

Surely it can't be too much longer before the first one is in service

They are sent there for post production modifications carried out by Hitachi staff temporarily based at Eastleigh. Normally would be done at Don caster, but it's a bit full there .

 

[SC43090]

Just seen a photo taken last week of two LNER Class 800's down at Eastleigh Works, any idea what they're doing down there?

Surely it can't be too much longer before the first one is in service

I understand the latest is April 2019 for entry into traffic

SC 43090

 

[tomglazed]

At the very least if the first diagrams are expected to be London to Leeds then people will get to experience the acceleration of these things in electric mode first off for the length of the route. I've experienced it once or twice on GWR and it's very impressive + may help with some good PR if the general public compare the performance out the gate to the 225's or HST's in this aspect.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Hello there. I've seen comments about potential 140mph running but does anyone know when the Azumas will be allowed to reach that speed?

 

[jimm]

From images I saw of a First Class seat being used for marketing photography, that appeared to feature a Moquette covering as opposed to standard cloth seen thus far at GWR. Maybe I’m optimistic but if that’s been done for the 1st Class seats, then someone would think to do the same for Standard also? Recent PR output certainly suggests they’re aware of the current criticism and trying to deflect or prepare.

You seem to be bit behind when it comes to GWR seat covers. All the Class 802s are being delivered by Hitachi with the moquette seat covers fitted and a start has also been made on providing them in 800s.

Hello there. I've seen comments about potential 140mph running but does anyone know when the Azumas will be allowed to reach that speed?

The idea of running at 140mph can't even be considered until cab signalling is installed. The ECML catenary would probably also require considerable modernisation - and there would also be lots of sums to do as to whether the speed gain and journey time reductions would be worth it when set against the increased maintenance costs for trains and overhead wires and the electricity bills.

Tthe ultimate decision will likely rest with the Department for Transport. Just because the DfT specified a train capable of 140mph running doesn't mean they will necessarily they be able to get it past the beancounters at the Treasury.