LNER Azuma (Class 800/801)

Harbon 1

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I can assure you it is worse. All the way from Glasgow to London
They're firm, but they're not catastrophic. All stock has its issues; the constant groaning of gangways on Mk3s, or the push up the backside and constant knocking from a worn buckeye on Mk4s, they're heavy bits of kit, its never going to be perfect.

Agin yes, it's exactly the same as being on a 385
Never experienced a 385 so can only assume its similar to the braking experience I've had on Hitachi stock, no noisier than any other unit I've been on.

Really is it? Are you denying what is plain to see?
Since all of my journeys on 800/801s have been in the daytime, and I specifically remember being able to see out of the window quite clearly on every single occasion, obviously that's not true. Did you have the blind down? ;)

Appearances can be deceiving.
Well again the ones I've sat in I know are no worse than 222s.

This isn't a lip, this is an upwards curve on the bulkhead side of the table which means a good inch and a half is unusable for anything. This should have been on the inboard side and would have helped stop stuff flying off with the rubbish ride quality.
Oh that bit. Size isn't important, it's what you do with it.

They're all genuine! If your content with 385 quality IC stock then we both have very, very different ideas on what IC quality is. A 385 is tolerable for 42 mins, London to Inverness on a 385 masquerading as an IC train is not.
Again, not experienced a 385. Very specific time to be tolerable. My arse can go numb sooner than that on any train.

Agreed but still seem to have life elsewhere on the network? Can't be that knackered.
They may well be alright on the inside, but there is a lot of corrosion appearing around the doors. How long they'll actually last with other operators remains to be seen.
 
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Thatcham Xing

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Can't say its much worse than I remember the Mk4s being on occasion. They can really chuck you around.
I ride IET's quite a bit in GWR-land but yesterday found myself on a day trip KingsX to Leeds and back. The up journey was on a 2*5 Azuma and back was on a 91/Mk4.

To me the Azuma was quieter, smoother (although I was sat above a bogie on the 91), brighter and more spacious.
Yes, the seats are a bit hard but I'm used to that on GWR and didn't find it uncomfortable.
Only downside was I never saw a catering trolley on the Azuma (this is a permanent gripe on GWR IET's, especially 2*5's).
 

Failed Unit

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I ride IET's quite a bit in GWR-land but yesterday found myself on a day trip KingsX to Leeds and back. The up journey was on a 2*5 Azuma and back was on a 91/Mk4.

To me the Azuma was quieter, smoother (although I was sat above a bogie on the 91), brighter and more spacious.
Yes, the seats are a bit hard but I'm used to that on GWR and didn't find it uncomfortable.
Only downside was I never saw a catering trolley on the Azuma (this is a permanent gripe on GWR IET's, especially 2*5's).
For interest what is your view on the buffet? No catering trolley but you have the option of the buffet or do you prefer the GWR no buffet but a trolley?

I tend to only use the buffet. Mainly as you never know if / when you will see the trolley on LNER. (Which I understand is getting better)
 

sprinterguy

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The RMT are evidently not happy with working conditions on the LNER class 800/801 Azuma trains, having issued this statement this morning:
WORKING CONDITIONS, CLASS 800/801 AZUMA SERIES - LNER
https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/members...NsGUuhZlkHQzEy4Mp5Teef3uIw9jkomUeqfYsgwq0e8-c
Members have raised some serious concerns following the introduction of the Class 800/801 AZUMA fleet. There are multiple on-board issues and inadequate facilities which are detrimental to passengers and staff alike. The available luggage storage has been found to be woefully inadequate and with the upcoming Christmas period there will likely be a large increase in health & safety issues and stress for frontline staff. These issues have been ignored by management who have responded along the lines of ‘you will just have to manage it’ – a complete failure to take responsibility for an intolerable working environment.

Other issues reported by members include:-

Toilets going out of use randomly
Taps flooding floors
Bicycle storage spaces that are unable to accommodate bicycles
Ovens leaking
No rubbish storage provision
Disabled toilet doors failing
Seat reservation failures

Our National Executive Council has considered the matter and shares the concerns that members have raised. We will not sit back and allow our members and passengers to have their safety and wellbeing compromised. I have written to LNER to arrange an urgent meeting with senior management to address these issues. I will keep you advised of further developments.

Yours sincerely

Mick Cash
General Secretary
Many of those issues are concurrent with some of the criticism levelled at the trains on this forum. I've already witnessed the first report of an Azuma worked service that suffered cumulative delay at each station stop due to congestion caused on board by insufficient luggage space. That was at the end of the August bank holiday weekend, less than a month after they'd entered service on the Edinburgh route.
 

Failed Unit

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The RMT are evidently not happy with working conditions on the LNER class 800/801 Azuma trains, having issued this statement this morning:

Many of those issues are concurrent with some of the criticism levelled at the trains on this forum. I've already witnessed the first report of an Azuma worked service that suffered cumulative delay at each station stop due to congestion caused on board by insufficient luggage space. That was at the end of the August bank holiday weekend, less than a month after they'd entered service on the Edinburgh route.
You then get posts like #2413 that thinks us passengers (and train crew) should get into the millennium. Accept the declining standards and adapt.

but certainly the not really heard positive comments from the train crews and station staff.

About to go on one. But I think we have seats that are nearby the doors that only look at plastic. Good ones to replace with stacks.

On the train now. Coach B specifically. 8 viewless seats that could be replaced. All near the doors and the pockets for them. Loading on the Lincoln service ok. See how many are on after Newark. I suspect we won’t fill a 153 but LNER will be happy to get us off the 1030. Got to start somewhere. Gone all all types of Azuma now. Can’t tell the difference as a passenger (interior wise if course less coaches etc)
 
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387star

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The RMT are evidently not happy with working conditions on the LNER class 800/801 Azuma trains, having issued this statement this morning:

Many of those issues are concurrent with some of the criticism levelled at the trains on this forum. I've already witnessed the first report of an Azuma worked service that suffered cumulative delay at each station stop due to congestion caused on board by insufficient luggage space. That was at the end of the August bank holiday weekend, less than a month after they'd entered service on the Edinburgh route.
I thought these trains were praised for their luggage space or was that just overhead ?

Sounds like nothing has been learned almost two decades on from the voyager introduction

I was on a 377 outer car the other day and thought blimey these really aren't bad trains. I guess they seem positively comfortable now compared to some fleets although their luggage space is dire too
 

Failed Unit

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I thought these trains were praised for their luggage space or was that just overhead ?

Sounds like nothing has been learned almost two decades on from the voyager introduction

I was on a 377 outer car the other day and thought blimey these really aren't bad trains. I guess they seem positively comfortable now compared to some fleets although their luggage space is dire too
the overhead is the same as any other train. You can fit small bags under the seat such as a laptop bag. But only 2 stacks per coach for larger bags. Not enough when you consider that on London - Edinburgh service’s they used to use the DVT / Power car. The more seats per coach is actually making this worse.

apparently they have other space similar to the bike storage. But it is a lot less than the trains they replace. It is noticeable even in London - Leeds services that getting on mid route the space is all taken.
 

GrimShady

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I thought these trains were praised for their luggage space or was that just overhead ?

Sounds like nothing has been learned almost two decades on from the voyager introduction

I was on a 377 outer car the other day and thought blimey these really aren't bad trains. I guess they seem positively comfortable now compared to some fleets although their luggage space is dire too
Last time I was on a 800 heading North passengers were being instructed to place unreasonably large items in the overhead racks....which surprise, surprise fell off going round corners.

One particular journey springs to mind was when the unit arrived in Edinburgh heading south, upon boarding I heard comments from many such as "This can't be the LNER train", "This wasn't pictured on the website" , "Are you sure this is First Class?"

Voyagers seem plush compared to these things!
 

ainsworth74

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the overhead is the same as any other train.
They're a heck of a lot larger than on a lot of other trains! I definitely think the overhead racks are a big plus point to these but...

But only 2 stacks per coach for larger bags.
And they're only narrow as well. You put one large suitcase in the bottom and that's basically the bottom part filled. Couple of smaller ones in the top and that's full. So maybe three suitcases total which is woeful. I fully agree that all the viewless seats would be much better used for luggage racks and I have to say that they could do with being slightly larger (it feels like they don't take up as much room as the pair of airline seats does). Of course in an ideal world the DfT would have specified a small van space on at least the 9-car trains...
 

Failed Unit

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Depends what you compare it to. I think the overheads are similar to what they replace. HST and Mk4. But compared to a southern electro star they are enormous. The southern electro stars can’t get much on them. Which is odd as the turbos can. (Again similar to the azuma)
 

sprinterguy

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I fully agree that all the viewless seats would be much better used for luggage racks and I have to say that they could do with being slightly larger (it feels like they don't take up as much room as the pair of airline seats does). Of course in an ideal world the DfT would have specified a small van space on at least the 9-car trains...
Indeed, luggage racks in place of the windowless seats at the carriage ends would seem logical, and potentially quite straightforward to retrofit. It also surely shouldn't have been beyond the wit of man at the design stage to include a non-seated area for luggage on these long distance inter-city trains, as per the area behind the cab at the standard class end of a class 397, which I believe is the bike space on those units.
 

Thatcham Xing

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For interest what is your view on the buffet? No catering trolley but you have the option of the buffet or do you prefer the GWR no buffet but a trolley?
On longer journeys (like yesterday) I'm usually on my own and travelling for business in a reserved seat. So a buffet is of little use.

Trolley would be great if they turned-up.

Having said all that, I do miss the chance to stand and have a beer in the buffet of an HST on a late train out of Paddington :)
 

Failed Unit

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On longer journeys (like yesterday) I'm usually on my own and travelling for business in a reserved seat. So a buffet is of little use.

Trolley would be great if they turned-up.

Having said all that, I do miss the chance to stand and have a beer in the buffet of an HST on a late train out of Paddington :)
Trolley was locked up in buffet today. They did check tickets for a change. Didn’t see many walking to buffet.
 

Y Ddraig Coch

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Seems the RMT are taking all the issues very seriously.

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/members...NsGUuhZlkHQzEy4Mp5Teef3uIw9jkomUeqfYsgwq0e8-c

Dear Colleague

WORKING CONDITIONS, CLASS 800/801 AZUMA SERIES - LNER

Members have raised some serious concerns following the introduction of the Class 800/801 AZUMA fleet. There are multiple on-board issues and inadequate facilities which are detrimental to passengers and staff alike. The available luggage storage has been found to be woefully inadequate and with the upcoming Christmas period there will likely be a large increase in health & safety issues and stress for frontline staff. These issues have been ignored by management who have responded along the lines of ‘you will just have to manage it’ – a complete failure to take responsibility for an intolerable working environment.

Other issues reported by members include:-

Toilets going out of use randomly
Taps flooding floors
Bicycle storage spaces that are unable to accommodate bicycles
Ovens leaking
No rubbish storage provision
Disabled toilet doors failing
Seat reservation failures

Our National Executive Council has considered the matter and shares the concerns that members have raised. We will not sit back and allow our members and passengers to have their safety and wellbeing compromised. I have written to LNER to arrange an urgent meeting with senior management to address these issues. I will keep you advised of further developments.

Yours sincerely

Mick Cash
General Secretary
 

43096

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The overheads can fit full sized suitcases. The catch is you need to be tall/strong enough to get them there in the first place.
It would help if people didn’t take so much luggage with them without thinking that their nice four-wheeled case does actually have to be moved and lifted sometimes. Simple rule: don’t take more than you can carry.
 

Y Ddraig Coch

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It would help if people didn’t take so much luggage with them without thinking that their nice four-wheeled case does actually have to be moved and lifted sometimes. Simple rule: don’t take more than you can carry.
Bring back guards vans on long distance services....
 

Marton

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The overheads can fit full sized suitcases. The catch is you need to be tall/strong enough to get them there in the first place.
I’m always worried when I see the size and weight of some cases in overheads. If there were an incident it’s a lot of head injury material.

When there were more paired facing seats there was more luggage space between the pairs. Far safer.
 

EE Andy b1

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Not really noticed it on the Mk4s now. The HST is worse as we don’t have a door near where the baggage is stored.
From what i have seen, nobody unless it's out size baggage like a Cello or such like ever goes and dumps there large cases in the DVT as they all want it near them, and most people would not know there was a luggage van on Mk4, HSTs or anything else.
You would have passengers wondering up and down the platform looking for the guards van, dumping cases then walking up and down the platform looking for coach A, B, Z whatever, with time ebbing away.

It might have worked if all train types were basically the same with guards van in a similar position on most Intercity trains.

The best bet would be to remove seats in the middle of each vehicle for large floor to ceiling racks for large cases where they can be watched and secured.
 

Failed Unit

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From what i have seen, nobody unless it's out size baggage like a Cello or such like ever goes and dumps there large cases in the DVT as they all want it near them, and most people would not know there was a luggage van on Mk4, HSTs or anything else.
You would have passengers wondering up and down the platform looking for the guards van, dumping cases then walking up and down the platform looking for coach A, B, Z whatever, with time ebbing away.

It might have worked if all train types were basically the same with guards van in a similar position on most Intercity trains.

The best bet would be to remove seats in the middle of each vehicle for large floor to ceiling racks for large cases where they can be watched and secured.
In the summer / Christmas period it is encouraged for London - Edinburgh passengers. They are directed to the DVT and it frees up the stacks for people travelling at the intermediate stations.

you get baggage tags and everything.

did GWR have issues in their Cornish services in the holidays?
 

EE Andy b1

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did GWR have issues in their Cornish services in the holidays?
I personally don't know this year about GWR as have not travelled with them due to the discomfort of there IETs but i would have thought they would have had problems as there the same type of train ordered by the the same DfT with the same shortage of large case racks, maybe not to the same amount as the Scottish trains as these are very popular on both East and West Coast mainlines.

A few weeks back i was on the 1006 Kings Cross to Newark which was formed of 2 x Class 801s, which got terminated at Peterborough due to a train fault, so we were all de-trained and got on the following 1030 ex Kings Cross to Edinburgh, Class 91 & Mk4s which ended up full and standing. You could hardly move for cases and baggage, it was that bad the guard had made several announcements of people to move cases from vestibules and doors. That was probably at the extreme due to failure.
 

Goldfish62

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I was recently on a First Bus which had superior seats to IET.
Indeed, the Lazzerrini high back seats that First currently specify are comfortable, despite (or because of?) being quite an old design and are certainly far more comfortable than anything the (UK) railways are able to provide.
 

td97

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In the summer / Christmas period it is encouraged for London - Edinburgh passengers. They are directed to the DVT and it frees up the stacks for people travelling at the intermediate stations.
It has a use at term end dates for the universities along the ECML, for example see https://twitter.com/PeterSharp76/status/1109409359602294784?s=20
Spending the day at Durham helping with the end of term exodus from @durham_uni. For @LNER customers travelling to London we are using our luggage vans to convey extra bags so please speak with platform staff. We’re loading the trains as quickly as we can to minimise delay.
The only way that will be possible soon is if a small batch of Mk4s is retained.
 

Bletchleyite

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The best bet would be to remove seats in the middle of each vehicle for large floor to ceiling racks for large cases where they can be watched and secured.
Interestingly this is exactly what Virgin did on the Mk2 LHCS on XC - removed one bay at the coach middle and replaced with a large luggage rack. The trouble with having it in the middle is that there are flow conflicts - people board, head to the middle to drop bags, then move back outwards to find seats against the flow of those still boarding. This slows boarding progress.

As such it's better, in an end-doored coach, to have such a rack at the ends but inside the vestibule doors so people can still see it and watch it.
 

ashkeba

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On longer journeys (like yesterday) I'm usually on my own and travelling for business in a reserved seat. So a buffet is of little use.
I donot understand this. Is there a discount business reserved ticket that prohibits leaving your seat to visit the buffet?

Having said all that, I do miss the chance to stand and have a beer in the buffet of an HST on a late train out of Paddington :)
Yes, a demi of Arkells stood at the window as the scenery changed from London to Thames Valley was an enjoyable experience on the old GWR. An experience lost for now, like restaurant cars on Stomarket-London intercities. A curse on railway companies for not cherishing and promoting these treasures!
 

EE Andy b1

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In the summer / Christmas period it is encouraged for London - Edinburgh passengers. They are directed to the DVT and it frees up the stacks for people travelling at the intermediate stations.

you get baggage tags and everything.
It has a use at term end dates for the universities along the ECML, for example see https://twitter.com/PeterSharp76/status/1109409359602294784?s=20

The only way that will be possible soon is if a small batch of Mk4s is retained.
Well i didn't realise that LNER used the DVT for such a use nowadays until @Failed Unit mentioned it above. So LNER knowing the amount of cases that could be carried still had the interior fit on the Azuma unfit for purpose with the lack of large case luggage racks.
I wonder if Mr Sharp will be there in the future when the Mk4s have all gone.
 

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