LNER Azuma (Class 800/801)

[a_c_skinner]

highest point on the Norwegian railway network

Finse. A fantastic ride in winter. Sit near the back and see the locomotive vanish in clouds of ploughed powder. The Bergen line has a place in Norway's psyche that the Highland Line never will. Imagine Birmingham to London cut off all winter until the railway opened. The difference it made, still makes, is huge. It stitched the country together, so nothing is too much for the Bergensbanen

 

[westv]

Yesterday evenings Kings X to Hull service was 2x5 rather than 9 coaches due to "staff shortages". The rear 5 were locked and out of public use from Doncaster. Not sure if they were detached or not. Also, no hot food in 1st class.

 

[Class455]

Potential delivery run for an LNER Azuma planned for Monday it seems as the continuation from Acton Main Line is on to Bounds Green:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K05849/2019-12-16/detailed
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K05852/2019-12-16/detailed

 

[800001]

I just got an email about my LNER Hull to London service on Monday.

"When you purchased your ticket, the journey was scheduled to be on one of our 9-coach Azuma trains. Unfortunately, due to unforeseen timetable changes we may need to use one of our 5-coach Azuma trains for this service instead"

The thing is that I looked at what service was scheduled to run on 20/1 - the latest for which AP tickets are available. That is a 5 coach train too. I do wonder what this "unforeseen timetable change is" and how long it will last. Last week the service was 5 coaches and the TM had to apologise to passengers for the lack of space.

800109 collision damage, so out for several. Months.
800101 still not accepted by lner (due January)

Also Hitachi are behind with delivert of the 801/2 - 9 car electric sets.

So a lot of services since last Monday not operating as what they should be.

 

[Kettledrum]

why are the HST's being taken out of service if the new trains are insufficient and only running as 5 coaches?

 

[156443]

Had my first ride on an Azuma to York on Saturday morning and the first thing i noticed was that the seats are rubbish, rode back to Newcastle on one of the 91s which was much more comfortable

 

[Failed Unit]

why are the HST's being taken out of service if the new trains are insufficient and only running as 5 coaches?

I would answer this question with a question how many diagrams actually need Diesel throughout. I know at least 2 of the HST diagrams never left the wires and some of those that did were not the most efficient.

In December they have more diagrams that leave the wires with the addition of the Harrogate services. But seen many posts saying even with 2x 9 car sets down they can cover this with mk4s

 

[Failed Unit]

Just looked at the 125 group. 14x HST diagrams of which 2 are under the wires all day.
Some do a very short journey away from the wires such as a single run from Newark- Lincoln.
I suspect yes. With the new diagrams they definitely have enough even with the Harrogates.
What is the fuel range on the bi-modes. Could for example the 0755 Aberdeen to London return at 1600 then take the following days 0955 without fuel concerns as they are on electric now the majority of the time.

 

[jimm]

A step down in performance over a HST - was 2 min slower reaching Schlod summit from Inverness and a paltry maximum of 56mph on the climb. Regular 2+9 HSTs could do 65mph, Scotrail mini 2+4 sets can do the full 75mph.

So what's your explanation for the past two mornings' southbound performance then?

On Friday it was on time or one minute early all the way to the outskirts of Edinburgh on the HST timing.

Yesterday, it was on time over Schlod summit again and on time or within two minutes almost the whole way to Perth.

And the extra time allowed to reach Stirling from tomorrow is a whole 60 seconds.

The 80x is not an HST Mk2 - never mind able to match the performance of a train made up of four Mk3s with 4,500hp on tap to move them.

 

[deltic08]

Just looked at the 125 group. 14x HST diagrams of which 2 are under the wires all day.
Some do a very short journey away from the wires such as a single run from Newark- Lincoln.
I suspect yes. With the new diagrams they definitely have enough even with the Harrogates.
What is the fuel range on the bi-modes. Could for example the 0755 Aberdeen to London return at 1600 then take the following days 0955 without fuel concerns as they are on electric now the majority of the time.

First Azuma from Harrogate this morning was a 10 car. Passengers were waiting at least 5 minutes in the freezing cold before the doors were unlocked. Good job it wasn't raining or snowing as the platform canopy is less than one coach length and miles from the platform edge. It is there more to protect the newly installed gateline than the customers from the harsh northern weather. The conductor moved everybody from the rear set into the first before departure even though most had seat reservations. Why then did he unlock the rear set in the first place allowing passengers to settle in! I asked the conductor why he had done this and was told in effect it was non of my business. I suspect not enough onboard staff. I hope this is not going to be a regular inconvenience. It would have been my business if I had been travelling with a reservation in the rear set and lots of luggage in my disabled condition.
Not a good start to encourage growth on LNER.

 

[Norther Monkey]

First Azuma trip today, Aberdeen to Kings Cross. Overall impressed; the seats no worse than the 'Mallard' on the HST and possibly a little better given there seems to be more legroom (I always thought the Mallard seats were poor anyway). Acceleration seemed sprightly with lost time made up before Edinburgh. Noise not particularly intrusive on diesel. Compared to the HST losing the rattling from the gang ways and snatching during acceleration and braking makes the environment better overall.
It's a shame to lose the natural light from the toilets and, as ever with modern stock, the wash hand basin is too small leading to water on the floor.

 

[westv]

When the Hull service runs as 5 coaches instead of 9 there is barely enough room for everybody - in fact I don't think there is enough.

 

[ajrm]

First Azuma trip today, Aberdeen to Kings Cross. Overall impressed; the seats no worse than the 'Mallard' on the HST and possibly a little better given there seems to be more legroom (I always thought the Mallard seats were poor anyway). Acceleration seemed sprightly with lost time made up before Edinburgh. Noise not particularly intrusive on diesel.

At the risk of asking a silly question, were you sitting in a trailer coach or a motor coach? I was travelling in a motor coach on my first run out of Edinburgh last week and found the engine noise to be very poor, worse than a Voyager for sure.

 

[Failed Unit]

Which coaches are the motors? Sat in A, B and E on Lincoln, but it isn’t demanding so not really noticeable (compared to the alternative a 153)

 

[Bletchleyite]

At the risk of asking a silly question, were you sitting in a trailer coach or a motor coach? I was travelling in a motor coach on my first run out of Edinburgh last week and found the engine noise to be very poor, worse than a Voyager for sure.

I've sat in an engine coach and not found that to be the case. I don't find it loud on Voyagers once you're moving, either, though, it's more of a low rumble not dissimilar to track noise on a Mk1 coach with poor sound insulation. Neither is anywhere near as ear-rattling as a 15x.

 

[mullac30]

I was in coach L, and I have to say it is the quietest underfloor engined unit I've ever been on. The contrast between the noise on the 158 I was on earlier and the 800 was staggering.

 

[sprinterguy]

Which coaches are the motors? Sat in A, B and E on Lincoln, but it isn’t demanding so not really noticeable (compared to the alternative a 153)

Under vehicles B,C and D or G,H and K on 5-car sets (Only the driving cars are unpowered), and under vehicles B,C,H,K and L on a 9-car set.

 

[trebor79]

The only time I've ever noticed engine noise/vibration on an 800 is when the engines shut down or first start up there is a few seconds shaking but that's it.
For an underfloor engine, they are pleasingly quiet and totally unobtrusive.

 

[samuelmorris]

At the risk of asking a silly question, were you sitting in a trailer coach or a motor coach? I was travelling in a motor coach on my first run out of Edinburgh last week and found the engine noise to be very poor, worse than a Voyager for sure.

Depends where you're sitting - the engines seem to be at one end, if you happen to sit at the other end, you can barely hear them. I imagine it'd be quite obtrusive if you're sitting directly above them.

 

[ajrm]

Depends where you're sitting - the engines seem to be at one end, if you happen to sit at the other end, you can barely hear them. I imagine it'd be quite obtrusive if you're sitting directly above them.

I suspect that may have been the case. Starting up at Haymarket made me jump out of my seat even though I was expecting it!

 

[DanNCL]

Currently on my first pair of 5 car Azumas and unlike the 9 car units (which are in my opinion whilst definitely a downgrade compared to the HSTs/Mark 4s are not too bad) my impression of this is poor. The coaches are in the wrong order (Train is formed E-D-C-B-A-M-K-H-G-F), the reservation screens aren't working and yet the crew are still trying to enforce reservations. None of the staff seem to have a clue how to deal with it. You'd have thought by now with pairs of 5 cars having been in service for a few months that the crew would have an understanding of how to deal with this and problems like this wouldn't occur, but looks like that's not the case unfortunately.

Is this a common issue with pairs of 5 car units?

 

[Norther Monkey]

At the risk of asking a silly question, were you sitting in a trailer coach or a motor coach? I was travelling in a motor coach on my first run out of Edinburgh last week and found the engine noise to be very poor, worse than a Voyager for sure.

I was in a motor coach. The noise was there but, for me, not intrusive. Improvements elsewhere (gangway noise, vestibule doors, snatching couplings) more than offset any losses from engine noise.

 

[Failed Unit]

Currently on my first pair of 5 car Azumas and unlike the 9 car units (which are in my opinion whilst definitely a downgrade compared to the HSTs/Mark 4s are not too bad) my impression of this is poor. The coaches are in the wrong order (Train is formed E-D-C-B-A-M-K-H-G-F), the reservation screens aren't working and yet the crew are still trying to enforce reservations. None of the staff seem to have a clue how to deal with it. You'd have thought by now with pairs of 5 cars having been in service for a few months that the crew would have an understanding of how to deal with this and problems like this wouldn't occur, but looks like that's not the case unfortunately.

Is this a common issue with pairs of 5 car units?

Not heard that one before. Seems very odd and makes little sense to be honest. Seen 1 train in reverse formation with the same results as LNER refuse to mark first clearly. (Yellow stripe anyone?) so everyone in one set moving around.

a couple of 5 cars out today as well.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I was in a motor coach. The noise was there but, for me, not intrusive. Improvements elsewhere (gangway noise, vestibule doors, snatching couplings) more than offset any losses from engine noise.

Even as a huge fan of the IC225s and Mark 4s I can admit the vestibule doors (also evident on MK3s) sliding open with a bang and the deafening racket made from the awful open droplight HST windows was foul. I’ve had over eighty of the 80X class for haulage now, and every single one has been a marked improvement in sound quality over the HSTs and 225s.

 

[hexagon789]

Currently on my first pair of 5 car Azumas and unlike the 9 car units (which are in my opinion whilst definitely a downgrade compared to the HSTs/Mark 4s are not too bad) my impression of this is poor. The coaches are in the wrong order (Train is formed E-D-C-B-A-M-K-H-G-F), the reservation screens aren't working and yet the crew are still trying to enforce reservations. None of the staff seem to have a clue how to deal with it. You'd have thought by now with pairs of 5 cars having been in service for a few months that the crew would have an understanding of how to deal with this and problems like this wouldn't occur, but looks like that's not the case unfortunately.

Is this a common issue with pairs of 5 car units?

Yes, I've read many reports of similar issues with GWR double fives. Something to do with how the software is set-up that it will configure itself based on some arbitrary parameters and needs manually adjusted to give the correct coach lettering a lot of the time.

 

[BRX]

The intrusiveness or annoying-ness of noise is not simply down to its volume which I suppose is why opinions differ so much. Travelling on a GWR IET I was actually reasonably impressed with how quiet it was under diesel power (may have been lucky with seat position). There wasn't the whining and rattling you get on various types of DMU which just sound like the engines are being tortured for hours on end (it's particularly noticeable on routes with a lot of up and down and a lot of stop/start which probably means that units used on those routes tend to end up having a worse reputation than ones that generally live on fast, flat lines). Of course, as far as rattling is concerned the picture might be different a few years down the line. All this has been said before I know.

 

[JohnMcL7]

The intrusiveness or annoying-ness of noise is not simply down to its volume which I suppose is why opinions differ so much. Travelling on a GWR IET I was actually reasonably impressed with how quiet it was under diesel power (may have been lucky with seat position). There wasn't the whining and rattling you get on various types of DMU which just sound like the engines are being tortured for hours on end (it's particularly noticeable on routes with a lot of up and down and a lot of stop/start which probably means that units used on those routes tend to end up having a worse reputation than ones that generally live on fast, flat lines). Of course, as far as rattling is concerned the picture might be different a few years down the line. All this has been said before I know.

I saw my first Azuma at Inverness this evening and my main impression was how quiet it was outside compared to the 158 and 170 DMU's although there was an impressive amount of noise from a 66 and 73 just moments before.

 

[3973EXL]

5Q64/65/X66 Tyne - Doncaster - Acton - Eastleigh
66741 891219

 

[Failed Unit]

Sorry to bring this up again, as I have not seen a definitive answer on this. But why were the 5-car electrics ordered?

I understand no plans exist to drop 5 coaches off at Leeds and continue to Bradford. Likewise no plans exist to split a train and have front 5 Hull rear 5 Leeds for example.

Read through the threads and pretty much all state they will operate in pairs. Capacity is about the same as 9 car so struggling to see the point. On 0555 London - Leeds. It probably could take 5 cars but again not aware of any plans to run them solo at quieter times. (This train may fill up after Doncaster)

just seems to give passengers a worse experience for no benefits to LNER.

 

[Swimbar]

Sorry to bring this up again, as I have not seen a definitive answer on this. But why were the 5-car electrics ordered?

I understand no plans exist to drop 5 coaches off at Leeds and continue to Bradford. Likewise no plans exist to split a train and have front 5 Hull rear 5 Leeds for example.

Read through the threads and pretty much all state they will operate in pairs. Capacity is about the same as 9 car so struggling to see the point. On 0555 London - Leeds. It probably could take 5 cars but again not aware of any plans to run them solo at quieter times. (This train may fill up after Doncaster)

just seems to give passengers a worse experience for no benefits to LNER.

According to the LNER website this mornings 0733 KX to HGT is formed of 2 x 5 car units.
Customers for Harrogate are required to join the front 5 Coaches.
Are they going to split it at Leeds or lock one set out of use from LDS to HGT to save staff?