LNER Class 91/Mk4 service status/withdrawals/2021 refurbishment

[DanNCL]

BN29 last day in traffic today. Then going for de-branding at Bounds Green.

Is the loco on that set (91108) going off lease tonight as well?

 

[cactustwirly]

Is the loco on that set (91108) going off lease tonight as well?

Nope none of the 91s have gone off lease yet

 

[DanNCL]

Nope none of the 91s have gone off lease yet

I know, which is why I was asking if one was going off lease tonight. 91108, the loco currently on the rake of coaches that's going off lease tonight, was previously reported as going off lease this month too.

 

[43094]

91108 isn’t going off lease tonight.

 

[DanNCL]

91108 isn’t going off lease tonight.

That's great, thanks.

 

[Kris Marshall]

BN05 and 82210 now sat in Ferme Park this evening.

BN24 and 82229 have been moved from Ferme Park but I'm not sure where to - can't see any transfers took place today.

82226 is on a YouTube video that has recently been updated and it’s getting dragged to ferme Park with no LNER logo on ‍♂️

 

[_toommm_]

82226 is on a YouTube video that has recently been updated and it’s getting dragged to ferme Park with no LNER logo on ‍♂️

For reference;

 

[66Yorks]

Better catch a 91 before they all disappear. (From the ECML anyhow)

 

[Tractor37]

91103 goes off lease this week. 91108 the week after.

 

[alexf380]

Do you know when this week? Also did it ever return to service? Only asking as I still need it for haulage.

 

[59CosG95]

Do you know when this week? Also did it ever return to service? Only asking as I still need it for haulage.

No idea when this week - I'd assume by the end of Saturday night. And yes, it did indeed return to service.

 

[aljon]

91103 goes off lease this week. 91108 the week after.

Don't you think apart from the one going to the museum we should have one preserved in working order .steam lost its watering and coaling facilities ,Electric is here to stay.

 

[NoMorePacers]

I think those specific locos are going to Grand Central for their new Blackpool-Euston service.

I also think the lack of preserved electric trains is quite staggering really.

 

[sprinterguy]

I also think the lack of preserved electric trains is quite staggering really.

There's not the means to operate electric locos away from the main line, though, and I think electric traction has always had a more select appeal: Electric trains don't generally garner the same level of nostalgia as steam, and specific classes were often far more geographically restricted than their diesel counterparts.

 

[EE Andy b1]

Sorry if missed this somewhere....

But do we know when Transport for Wales will be getting there 3 sets of Mk4 coaches?

 

[cactustwirly]

I think those specific locos are going to Grand Central for their new Blackpool-Euston service.

I also think the lack of preserved electric trains is quite staggering really.

I don't think so, I thought GC were using 90s with their Mk4s?

 

[NoMorePacers]

I don't think so, I thought GC were using 90s with their Mk4s?

I'm not sure, it seems to alternate between having 90s and 91s.

 

[EE Andy b1]

I don't think so, I thought GC were using 90s with their Mk4s?

GC will be using Class 91s, but it was mentioned that Class 90 would probably be a better more reliable locomotive for the service, but Freightliner were supposed to be having some of the 90s plus 2 going to LSL at Crewe.

 

[DanNCL]

I don't think so, I thought GC were using 90s with their Mk4s?

I'm not sure, it seems to alternate between having 90s and 91s.

There seems to be a lot of confusion and speculation as to whether it'll be 90s or 91s on the Grand Central Blackpool services when they launch. Some people (including Alliance Rail when they made the track access applications) have suggested it'll be 91s, others have suggested it'll be 90s hired from DB Cargo. Grand Central has said it hasn't been confirmed which locos will be used on the Blackpool services so I think it's safe to say that nobody knows whether it'll be 90s or 91s on Grand Central's Blackpool services, never mind which 91s will be used by Grand Central if they do decide to use 91s. For now at least, none of the 91s have a confirmed home after LNER have finished using them and it's unknown what'll happen to them.

 

[cactustwirly]

There seems to be a lot of confusion and speculation as to whether it'll be 90s or 91s on the Grand Central Blackpool services when they launch. Some people (including Alliance Rail when they made the track access applications) have suggested it'll be 91s, others have suggested it'll be 90s hired from DB Cargo. Grand Central has said it hasn't been confirmed which locos will be used on the Blackpool services so I think it's safe to say that nobody knows whether it'll be 90s or 91s on Grand Central's Blackpool services, never mind which 91s will be used by Grand Central if they do decide to use 91s. For now at least, none of the 91s have a confirmed home after LNER have finished using them and it's unknown what'll happen to them.

If they don't go to Alliance, then they are very likely to make a one way trip to Rotherham/Kingsbury/Newport.
With an abundance of more reliable 90s I don't see anyone that would take them, as there isn't a need for a 125mph passenger locomotive.

 

[DanNCL]

If they don't go to Alliance, then they are very likely to make a one way trip to Rotherham/Kingsbury/Newport.
With an abundance of more reliable 90s I don't see anyone that would take them, as there isn't a need for a 125mph passenger locomotive.

Most likely they'll be stored once LNER have finished using them for as long as Eversholt think they may be able to find another customer for them, and then be scrapped (barring however many the NRM take - if I recall correctly multiple 91s are designated for the National Collection) once Eversholt don't think they'll find another use. Same as what's been done with off lease HSTs and 442s.

There was talk back when Virgin Trains East Coast existed of keeping a small number of 91s for Kings Cross - Edinburgh services though nothing new has been heard of that proposal since before LNER took over from VTEC so it's probably safe to assume that proposal won't be happening.

 

[whhistle]

Don't you think apart from the one going to the museum we should have one preserved in working order .steam lost its watering and coaling facilities ,Electric is here to stay.

On what preserved railway though?

 

[NoMorePacers]

Most likely they'll be stored once LNER have finished using them for as long as Eversholt think they may be able to find another customer for them, and then be scrapped (barring however many the NRM take - if I recall correctly multiple 91s are designated for the National Collection) once Eversholt don't think they'll find another use. Same as what's been done with off lease HSTs and 442s.

There was talk back when Virgin Trains East Coast existed of keeping a small number of 91s for Kings Cross - Edinburgh services though nothing new has been heard of that proposal since before LNER took over from VTEC so it's probably safe to assume that proposal won't be happening.

I think that Kings Cross - Edinburgh service has been superseded by First's open access operation on the same route.

Although it isn't implausible that 91s will be scrapped it's worth remembering that Class 37s and 86s, which are about twice the age of the 91s, are still in regular service, so there's hope yet for them.

 

[sprinterguy]

Although it isn't implausible that 91s will be scrapped it's worth remembering that Class 37s and 86s, which are about twice the age of the 91s, are still in regular service, so there's hope yet for them.

Class 37s and 86s are both relatively mechanically simple and versatile mixed traffic designs, especially the "go anywhere" class 37s, which is why they've remained in service in decreasing numbers. Class 91s are more complex locomotives designed for a specific purpose, much like the 'Deltics' on the East Coast before them.

Over thirty years since the first class member was rolled out of Crewe works, the class 91s have already had a good innings for intensively used express passenger locomotives.

 

[Entertexthere]

I always had the idea of semi-permanently coupling two class 91s together and using them on freight operations. With about 13,000hp, it should be enough for freight operations, and they were initially designed for freight operations at night. But as somebody said further up the thread, the aren't geared for that kind of stuff

 

[59CosG95]

I always had the idea of semi-permanently coupling two class 91s together and using them on freight operations. With about 13,000hp, it should be enough for freight operations, and they were initially designed for freight operations at night. But as somebody said further up the thread, the aren't geared for that kind of stuff

Indeed; while I think there were trials for freight, BR might have realised that (with wagons of the era) the 91s were about as useful for freight haulage as Sad Ken was on the 3.30 at Chepstow...

 

[Non Multi]

If they don't go to Alliance, then they are very likely to make a one way trip to Rotherham/Kingsbury/Newport.
With an abundance of more reliable 90s I don't see anyone that would take them, as there isn't a need for a 125mph passenger locomotive.

A one way journey through the Channel Tunnel, just like the surplus 37s, 58s, 66s, 87s and 92s (and not forgetting the 77s, pre-tunnel)...

 

[cactustwirly]

A one way journey through the Channel Tunnel, just like the surplus 37s, 58s, 66s, 87s and 92s (and not forgetting the 77s, pre-tunnel)...

Who's gonna take them? Especially when you can lease TRAXX locos from MRCE etc

 

[NoMorePacers]

Hungary and Bulgaria did it before, so they could do it again if needs be.

 

[cactustwirly]

Hungary and Bulgaria did it before, so they could do it again if needs be.

But Hungary has no need for freight locos, since MAV sold the freight operations to Rail Cargo Austria, and MAV have plenty of TRAXX, and Taurus locos for passenger stuff.
Plus a load of BR143s going spare, which are arguably way more suitable.
Not sure what Bulgaria would do with them either?