LNER Considering Requiring Passengers to Check-in Before Travel

[Hadders]

I have received a survey from LNER asking a number of questions about their app and using it to check-in before travel. It seems that they are considering asking passengers with their app to confirm they have boarded the train and are sat in their seat prior to departure. Passengers checking in using the app won't have their tickets checked onboard by the guard. The survey suggests that this will be a safer way of travelling from a Covid point of view.

Checking in prior to travel is something you do at an airport, it should not be necessary to check in before travelling by train. I have made my view on this quite clear in the survey but it is worrying that LNER are even considering this. I really don't see how this would reduce ticketless travel and what would happen during disruption? What about short distance journeys made using LNER like Stevenage to London, DOncaster to York or Durham to Newcastle.

Anyone else received this survey? Any thoughts?

 

[StephenHunter]

Checking in prior to rail travel is something a few people in Europe already do. If it's optional and it saves an inspection later, it's a good idea.

 

[Ianno87]

I have received a survey from LNER asking a number of questions about their app and using it to check-in before travel. It seems that they are considering asking passengers with their app to confirm they have boarded the train and are sat in their seat prior to departure. Passengers checking in using the app won't have their tickets checked onboard by the guard. The survey suggests that this will be a safer way of travelling from a Covid point of view.

Checking in prior to travel is something you do at an airport, it should not be necessary to check in before travelling by train. I have made my view on this quite clear in the survey but it is worrying that LNER are even considering this. I really don't see how this would reduce ticketless travel and what would happen during disruption? What about short distance journeys made using LNER like Stevenage to London, DOncaster to York or Durham to Newcastle.

Anyone else received this survey? Any thoughts?

Sounds like...

1) They're not expecting everyone to do this - just those with the App and/or have purchase tickets on it and

2) It's not massively onerous - possibly just get a notification pop up and press 'Yes, I'm on the train'

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Sounds like...
2) It's not massively onerous - possibly just get a notification pop up and press 'Yes, I'm on the train'

Yes agreed. Just wondering if it is a prelude to something else though.

 

[Hadders]

Yes agreed. Just wondering if it is a prelude to something else though.

I do wonder. First it's compulsory reservations, next checking in prior to travel. One of the questions was about how long before departure you should arrive at the station...

I fear travelling by train could become more complicated....

 

[DenmarkRail]

Agree with this idea from LNER. DB do it on some IC services. Also seen some other operators do it in Europe too. Makes good sense in my opinion. I'd also put down compulsory reservations on some IC services as a good idea.

All I'd want next is a good frequent traveller programme, and some sort of priority boarding!

 

[DB]

Agree with this idea from LNER. DB do it on some IC services. Also seen some other operators do it in Europe too. Makes good sense in my opinion. I'd also put down compulsory reservations on some IC services as a good idea.

Ridiculous idea. While it might work where there are long-distance and local services running in parallel, it simply doesn't work in this country as all the long-distance services also serve as local services at various points on their route - e.g. the only services between York and Doncaster are LNER and XC, both long-distance operators. Similar applies in many other areas.

The main selling point of rail is that it's turn up and go. Take that away and it becomes a lot less useful to a lot of people.

 

[choochootrain]

Agree with this idea from LNER. DB do it on some IC services. Also seen some other operators do it in Europe too. Makes good sense in my opinion. I'd also put down compulsory reservations on some IC services as a good idea.

All I'd want next is a good frequent traveller programme, and some sort of priority boarding!

So you're saying that if I want to travel between Stevenage and Kings Cross, Durham and Newcastle, or even between Leeds and Wakefield I'm expected to reserve a seat days in advance and have to produce a 'boarding pass'? An utterly ridiculous idea!

 

[kez19]

Yet I wonder what happens if your train doesn't turn up.

I also wonder however if its mentioned for their app would they roll it out to other sites such as trainline etc?

(I agree its a good idea but... as someone who uses them every few months or so seems rather pointless to me)
May add what happens if you forget to "check in" on the app and you on board? Expect a telling off and be told please check in next time (get fined for not doing so...)

So you're saying that if I want to travel between Stevenage and Kings Cross, Durham and Newcastle, or even between Leeds and Wakefield I'm expected to reserve a seat days in advance and have to produce a 'boarding pass'? An utterly ridiculous idea!

For me it depends if you can get a ticket to your destination via site also but in agreement here.

I mentioned over on my thread within the week or so but for where I stay and get "no availabilty" but split ticketing I can... I think they need to also think this through in all scenarios before rolling anything like this out.

 

[Hadders]

So at many stations you have to go through ticket barriers before boarding. Why do I then need to check in?

What happens if I forget to check in? Does my seat get 're-sold' if I don't check in a certain time before departure. I can see that being popular.....

Saying that if I check in before boarding the guard won't need to check my ticket again is all well and good but it just gives guards an excuse to be less visible than they already are. I want onboard to be more visible, walking through the train offering good customer service and reassurance.

 

[johntea]

Sounds like a great way for fare dodgers to 'check in' at Leeds with their Leeds to Wakefield ticket and end up in London!

 

[Starmill]

So you're saying that if I want to travel between Stevenage and Kings Cross, Durham and Newcastle, or even between Leeds and Wakefield I'm expected to reserve a seat days in advance and have to produce a 'boarding pass'? An utterly ridiculous idea!

LNER currently expect you to reserve, and if you try on the day and there aren't any socially distanced seat reservations left, they expect you not to board. If you're already travelling on one of their trains and you didn't reserve, and there's no availability for you to do so on your phone, you're expected to leave the train at the next station, as per their seat reservation labels. Of course that means little for the journeys of one stop as you suggest.

 

[choochootrain]

LNER currently expect you to reserve, and if you try on the day and there aren't any socially distanced seat reservations left, they expect you not to board. If you're already travelling on one of their trains and you didn't reserve, and there's no availability for you to do so on your phone, you're expected to leave the train at the next station, as per their seat reservation labels. Of course that means little for the journeys of one stop as you suggest.

Has anybody actually tested this? Got on an LNER train and when asked to leave refused? Or when told not to board just got on the train anyway?

 

[PG]

Yes agreed. Just wondering if it is a prelude to something else though.

Feels too much like the thin end of the wedge to me...

 

[peteb]

I can see the need to know who's travelling in a covid ridden world so that a tracing of sorts could take place. But making intercity trains all compulsory reservation is a nightmare. Take France for example where many IC trains also serve as local trains eg Limoges to Brive, 1 hour, 50 odd miles. The scant local services mean IC is the only option for many travellers but the hassle of pre booked seats etc surely puts many off. We still need a turn up and ride railway.....

 

[kez19]

LNER currently expect you to reserve, and if you try on the day and there aren't any socially distanced seat reservations left, they expect you not to board. If you're already travelling on one of their trains and you didn't reserve, and there's no availability for you to do so on your phone, you're expected to leave the train at the next station, as per their seat reservation labels. Of course that means little for the journeys of one stop as you suggest.

This was one of my fears recently in terms of booking hence I didn't do it, I can imagine being on the train then been told to get off (even if it wasn't a place I am to familar with!).

 

[alangla]

Feels too much like the thin end of the wedge to me...

Very much so. If this comes in then you can forget running into a station & diving through the doors of whatever is in the platform. 100% checkin would also mean no need for anyone other than catering staff needing to pass through (or be present on) the train. Determined fare dodgers will obviously just ignore it though. Think very carefully about whether a reservation only long distance network is what you really want.

 

[Paul Kelly]

It's an option in Germany on long-distance trains but it's advertised as a convenience for the passengers, i.e. travel without being bothered by a ticket check - you are just left undisturbed in your seat.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have received a survey from LNER asking a number of questions about their app and using it to check-in before travel. It seems that they are considering asking passengers with their app to confirm they have boarded the train and are sat in their seat prior to departure. Passengers checking in using the app won't have their tickets checked onboard by the guard. The survey suggests that this will be a safer way of travelling from a Covid point of view.

Checking in prior to travel is something you do at an airport, it should not be necessary to check in before travelling by train. I have made my view on this quite clear in the survey but it is worrying that LNER are even considering this. I really don't see how this would reduce ticketless travel and what would happen during disruption? What about short distance journeys made using LNER like Stevenage to London, DOncaster to York or Durham to Newcastle.

Anyone else received this survey? Any thoughts?

DB offers this as a service. If you do it, the idea is that the guard doesn't disturb you during the journey for a ticket check.

 

[Ianno87]

I can see the need to know who's travelling in a covid ridden world so that a tracing of sorts could take place. But making intercity trains all compulsory reservation is a nightmare. Take France for example where many IC trains also serve as local trains eg Limoges to Brive, 1 hour, 50 odd miles. The scant local services mean IC is the only option for many travellers but the hassle of pre booked seats etc surely puts many off. We still need a turn up and ride railway.....

Remember that "pre-booked" these days can just mean just whacking up the App on your phone 5 minutes before travel.

I think it's not a problem *provided* there is some special arrangement between stations where there is no "local" service to use should the "Intercity" service be full (e.g. Newark to Retford).

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

This also means one fewer interaction between Pax and Conductor on the board the train, which is an advantage in C-19 terms. If it was renamed 'Self-Ticket Checking', would that help everyone here?

 

[Bletchleyite]

This also means one fewer interaction between Pax and Conductor on the board the train, which is an advantage in C-19 terms. If it was renamed 'Self-Ticket Checking', would that help everyone here?

I guess in part it's compostage, i.e. marking your ticket used so you can't re-use it?

Another aspect is that you mark coach B seat 10 as having that ticket associated with it, so the person in that seat doesn't need checking as the assumption is that that's their ticket, and that if that ticket is shown elsewhere it's not valid.

It's not really check-in - I agree a better term could be used. Or nick DB's idea and call it "comfort check-in" which does sound decent.

This is the DB system, which seems to be the same thing they're proposing:

Self Check-in: Hop on. Check in. Relax.

If you have a mobile phone ticket and reservation, you can travel without having to present your ticket on board. All you have to do is get on, sit down at your reserved seat and check in.

www.bahn.com

Travel without ticket checks



Self Check-in: Hop on, check in, relax!


Benefits for you:

• Relaxed travel without ticket checks
• It's so easy - use the DB Navigator app to check in and validate your ticket yourself
• The information is sent to the train attendant’s terminal, letting them know they don't need to check your ticket.

What you need:

• Latest version of the DB Navigator app
• Mobile phone or online ticket for a saver fare or flexible fare ticket

Here's how it works:

1. Open DB Navigator app, go to My tickets and select the ticket in question. If you booked your ticket on bahn.com, you can load your online ticket into the app under "my Tickets" (instructions).
2. Open the mobile phone ticket, then tap the Itinerary tab.
3. Use the Komfort Check-in (Self Check-in) button to confirm your seat choice and that you are starting your journey.
4. If you have not yet added your BahnCard to the DB Navigator app, enter your BahnCard number here.

Download the free DB Navigator here now

 

[peteb]

Agreed it's no issue for the tech savvy and you can book on a TGV in France just minutes before departure. However you do get the daft situation whereby trains are filled sequentially so on a typical IC Bordeaux to Toulouse the first 3 carriages are rammed. But the silly reserved seat only system means you cant just go into another carriage and sit there, as passengers getting on later will turf you off. The only safe bet is to move once the train is on its run to its final destination. That would be ok for eg York to London non stop but useless for an ECML semi fast.

I'm all for seat reservations provided that they are clearly marked and enforced: there's nothing more irritating than starting a row with your fellow passengers about who is booked to sit where at the start of a 4 hour journey, and often train crews are absent. Equally for those unable or unwilling to pre book there should be unreserved seats available. I do think though that once 10 mins gave elapsed from departure any vacant "reserved" seats should be reset as available.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agreed it's no issue for the tech savvy and you can book on a TGV in France just minutes before departure. However you do get the daft situation whereby trains are filled sequentially so on a typical IC Bordeaux to Toulouse the first 3 carriages are rammed. But the silly reserved seat only system means you cant just go into another carriage and sit there, as passengers getting on later will turf you off. The only safe bet is to move once the train is on its run to its final destination. That would be ok for eg York to London non stop but useless for an ECML semi fast.

That is solved by a seat selector.

 

[williamn]

Also had this survey. Rather odd as before they explained what it was they asked what the 'ideal check in experience' would look like. I replied preferably none! Very against this idea, half the point of train travel is that its not a plane, you turn up 10 mins before the train and go.

LNER are, I think, in their efforts to be covid safe, at risk actually putting people off by making travel so complicated.

Oh and wouldn't it be nice if we had some united procedures across the whole network rather than operator by operator ones?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder, as a nationalised operation, if LNER is being used by DfT as a trial ground for various things? It is in the sense of single fare based pricing.

 

[Failed Unit]

Sounds like...

1) They're not expecting everyone to do this - just those with the App and/or have purchase tickets on it and

2) It's not massively onerous - possibly just get a notification pop up and press 'Yes, I'm on the train'

I don't think I would mind if it is point 2 as it does allow the seat to be re-reserved later in the journey.

I just hope they are not forgetting many people use connecting trains (including their own)

I have had many connections where the local train comes in, you can see the mainline and you hope you get between the 2.

I have completed this survey, it could have some positive benefits. Lets say you are travelling from Stevenage - Edinburgh you are changing at Peterborough. Your connecting is late. You have checked in, the app automatically tells you of your new connecting service, reservations etc. Or at the very least the station staff are aware the now have x passengers that have missed their connection. (I have sat on the Bridge before Peterborough in the past as the London - Edinburgh train has passed us to keep it ontime so it does happen)

To be honest it is great for fair dodgers. Book at London - Stevenage ticket, check in, travel to York as seat xx will not be checked.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To be honest it is great for fair dodgers. Book at London - Stevenage ticket, check in, travel to York as seat xx will not be checked.

The seat would only not be checked as far as Stevenage, though.

 

[edwin_m]

What happens if you find your booked seat is at a table with three unreserved, non-mask-wearing, coughing (or some of the above) passengers?

 

[Bletchleyite]

What happens if you find your booked seat is at a table with three unreserved, non-mask-wearing, coughing (or some of the above) passengers?

If the DB system is followed, you sit somewhere else, and when you press the "check in" button you enter the seat number you actually sat in.