LNER Horsforth stop - set down only

[johntea]

An interesting thing I just noticed on the LNER service to Harrogate

It is now advertised as stopping at Horsforth however it went flying past in the end!

The guard came down the train asking where every passenger was alighting, I’m assuming everyone said Harrogate so they advised the driver there was no need to stop? (Quite impressive to carry out that check and advise the driver in around 8 minutes if that is the case!)

I noticed it doesn’t seem to be advertised at Horsforth as a departure so presumably just a set down only service officially although I’m sure if it did stop there would be nothing to stop someone jumping on…

 

[Ianno87]

In theory, with Compulsory Reservations, if you know there's nobody booked to Horsforth, then you don't need to stop....

The guard came down the train asking where every passenger was alighting, I’m assuming everyone said Harrogate so they advised the driver there was no need to stop? (Quite impressive to carry out that check and advise the driver in around 8 minutes if that is the case!)

You'd give the driver "two bells" on the Right Away buzzer thing.

 

[The exile]

In theory, with Compulsory Reservations, if you know there's nobody booked to Horsforth, then you don't need to stop....



You'd give the driver "two bells" on the Right Away buzzer thing.

Other than the fact that a passenger’s plans may have changed since making the reservation. (Now being picked up at Horsforth instead of at Harrogate). Not a problem if you make an announcement in time for that passenger to say, “but…”

 

[JKF]

In theory, with Compulsory Reservations, if you know there's nobody booked to Horsforth, then you don't need to stop....



You'd give the driver "two bells" on the Right Away buzzer thing.

Not uncommon to book a return from one location and get off early on the way back.

I used to do a similar thing by booking my returns for work travel from Burley Park on the off chance there might be a connecting train when I got back to Leeds. This would rarely happen and I’d usually get the bus instead.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Other than the fact that a passenger’s plans may have changed since making the reservation. (Now being picked up at Horsforth instead of at Harrogate). Not a problem if you make an announcement in time for that passenger to say, “but…”

It can be argued that the railway is only fulfilling its part of the contract to transport the passenger with a ticket to Harrogate, to Harrogate. If the train we're diverted via York then it would reach Harrogate first and the passenger would have to buy an over distance excess or new ticket for Horsforth.

 

[FFB6C1]

It can be argued that the railway is only fulfilling its part of the contract to transport the passenger with a ticket to Harrogate, to Harrogate. If the train we're diverted via York then it would reach Harrogate first and the passenger would have to buy an over distance excess or new ticket for Horsforth.

Correct. The ticket is valid for the direct journey between the two stations listed on the ticket or by any number of scheduled passenger services over the shortest route between the two stations/any valid routes from the routing guide. If you get diverted but still arrive at Harrogate then you have completed a direct journey between the two stations listed on the ticket and thus the TOC would have no obligation to get you to Horsforth.

 

[greyman42]

It can be argued that the railway is only fulfilling its part of the contract to transport the passenger with a ticket to Harrogate, to Harrogate. If the train we're diverted via York then it would reach Harrogate first and the passenger would have to buy an over distance excess or new ticket for Horsforth.

Has a Harrogate service ever been diverted via York?

 

[_toommm_]

Has a Harrogate service ever been diverted via York?

Do they even sign York to Harrogate?

 

[greyman42]

Do they even sign York to Harrogate?

I very much doubt it now that you mention it. It would of been something that happened years ago if it ever has.

 

[Ianigsy]

I think much was made of the Azumas being cleared over the route (usual photo on the bridge at Knaresborough) although I’m not aware of it ever happening in service.

Last September I bent the rules somewhat - after I’d booked a Leeds-London return, I realised that I’d actually be travelling on the evening Bradford train and bought a separate single from Leeds to Shipley at Kings Cross. I suppose in theory I could have found myself at Bradford FS if the above had happened, but I’d still have had a ticket for travel to Shipley regardless of whether the train called or not.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

There's certainly been talk of serving Harrogate via York rather than Leeds, but I'm not convinced it would be worthwhile. Leeds is a far bigger market, and reversals aren't the hindrance that people seem to think- even if they were, there has also been talk of all extensions beyond Leeds arriving via Neville Hill which negates the need for a reversal anyway.

With the talk of Harrogate passengers being picked up at Horsforth, surely if you lived in Harrogate and decided to stop short, Headingley wouldn't be the easiest place for your lift to collect you from anyway. Easier than Leeds City centre itself sure, but not the ideal place to drive to from Harrogate.

 

[The exile]

It can be argued that the railway is only fulfilling its part of the contract to transport the passenger with a ticket to Harrogate, to Harrogate. If the train we're diverted via York then it would reach Harrogate first and the passenger would have to buy an over distance excess or new ticket for Horsforth.

True if we're talking tickets - but not if based on the fact that there are no reservations to Horsforth. If I hold any ticket that is valid to both Horsforth and Harrogate (All Line Rover, for example) and have therefore reserved through to Harrogate because of compulsory reservations, then the railway is surely obliged to ensure I get to Horsforth if that is my destination and they don't tell me that the train is not going to stop at an advertised call in time for me to make other arrangements. If the change of calling pattern is announced well before Leeds (or indeed covered by a timetable footnote saying something like "will not call to set down if no passengers have reserved seats to Horsforth") and there's an alternative stopping service available, that is of course a different matter...

 

[DB]

Has a Harrogate service ever been diverted via York?

Never aware of that having happened, and I've used the line on and off for a long time. If there is a problem between Leeds and Harrogate, they just cancel the train at Leeds. They actually often tend to be too keen to cancel it - if it's beyond more than X minutes late at Leeds, it tended to get cancelled as well.

Leeds-Harrogate is basically double-track mainine with modern signalling, whereas York-Harrogate uses semaphores for most of it and has two single-track sections which limit the capacity.

The only public services which didn't use Northern DMUs which I can ever remember travelling over the York-Harrogate section in recent years are some of the tour-de-france additionals, which used a set comprised of 67s and Mk3s.