Expect to see a change in the restriction code very shortly
So, as expected the switch to even pricing for outbound and return removes the date flexibility on the return leg currently available on an off peak return ticket
What about those journey when you don't know when you are coming back? You might want to stay an extra night if visiting family and perhaps your business appointments are done quicker and you are able to come home a day earlier.
It really is simple: price the single at 50% of the return fare. At the same time keep the period return for those who want the flexibility of being able to come back when they want. Yes, there will be some happy to buy 2 singles but that is annoying. I would rather buy one ticket and come back when I please.
2. Is there an industry perception that people use the return portions of period returns more than once over the month of the ticket's validity? Don't get checked on the way home, so next week just buy a single. This could be the driver to get rid of period returns.
To be fair, they've baked a very, very similar inconsistencies into their own fares structure for a rather long time as it is.I'm sure there's a pricing manager somewhere right now having a meltdown at the possible implications
So in essence they have reduced the cost of a super off peak single ticket by 50%. thats impressive by any measure
However, if you book a journey originating with another TOC, you still can get a normal return at the same price, which just makes this pointless
Well, that's the spin politicians would like you to take. In reality, it's nowhere near the revolution being claimed. People don't, on the whole, make single journeys - they do go back to where they started from.
On the other hand the reason that I used the train for my last trip to Scotland was that there was food, drink and a toilet on board so there was no need to break my journey, which I would have done several times in the car.Look at it another way: how many people who have cars always just do a long distance journey as two returns with no breaks and that's it?
It's a trial. Overall it's possible the advantages of only having singles outweigh the disadvantage. (Multiple day break of journey is the only one I've read, hence the singular)
If it's successful, who knows perhaps one January in the future returns could disappear.
What about those journey when you don't know when you are coming back? You might want to stay an extra night if visiting family and perhaps your business appointments are done quicker and you are able to come home a day earlier.
It really is simple: price the single at 50% of the return fare. At the same time keep the period return for those who want the flexibility of being able to come back when they want. Yes, there will be some happy to buy 2 singles but that is annoying. I would rather buy one ticket and come back when I please.
That's a fair point; someone should contact Northern and DfT to ask if this was considered and if they will be paying less Delay Repay for a customer who purchases 2 x Singles for a journey from (say) London to Leeds than to a passenger paying exactly the same price for (say) Kentish Town to Headingley.One other downside of single fares I’ve thought of is less delay repay for a 2+ hour delay.
GNER even but don't let that spoil other peoples outrage.SSU is not new. It's an offer which has been long standing for quite a while now (I think East Coast days) and is only available online when booked with an AP in one direction. LNER have the details here.
For years, singles costing just 10p less than returns has been complained about. In days gone by, the line was that this was to encourage people to buy and use returns.
Fixing this was always simple: Halve the price of returns to arrive at a single.
There's no need to withdraw returns to do that, and it doesn't simplify anything to do so.
I really don't think it's common for people to break a journey on the London - Edinburgh route overnight. Unless you have planned in advance - who gets off a train from Edinburgh to London at York without having accommodation already booked? If you have accommodation booked, then you also have the option of using advance tickets.
Well, not really. With single tickets there's no need to buy your return leg in advance, just buy it on the day when you know you want it. It also means you can return over a month later.
The only thing it removes is break of journey over multiple days, which I would say hardly anybody knows is possible, let alone does.
Of course it's unusual to do a multi day break of journey without knowing before you start so you could just split to do this. Might even save money!
If singles were valid two days it would encompass almost all BoJ requirements.
The thing that really needs safeguarding is same day breaks.
The only downside I can see is loss of overnight break of journey.
If few people do it, it might be because they don't know they can.
East Coast definitely offered them (only via their website and not on the day of travel) but there was no requirement to purchase it at the same time as an Advance in the opposite direction.SSU is not new. It's an offer which has been long standing for quite a while now (I think East Coast days) and is only available online when booked with an AP in one direction.
This is one of those situations where ITSO (if properly implemented) would be really useful. You would be able to but your Advance and a Super Off-Peak Single, the latter being activated on-demand without having to specify a date at the point of purchase.What about those journey when you don't know when you are coming back? You might want to stay an extra night if visiting family and perhaps your business appointments are done quicker and you are able to come home a day earlier.
Loads of people who make longer distance journeys do stop off somewhere; it's not common for short journeys but it's very common for longer journeys. This should not cost any more than it does at present, should it?!
Why not provide both options? Right now people do have both options - providing they know to ask for a ticket from somewhere like Finsbury Park or Kentish Town, and not London Terminals. I would not support having that option unilaterally removed.
Yes there was until the Worldine Webtis was replaced under VTEC. Where on earth would you have your Advance reservation with an ITSO ticket???? Barcode based tickets are much better for Intercity journeys.East Coast definitely offered them (only via their website and not on the day of travel) but there was no requirement to purchase it at the same time as an Advance in the opposite direction.
This is one of those situations where ITSO (if properly implemented) would be really useful. You would be able to but your Advance and a Super Off-Peak Single, the latter being activated on-demand without having to specify a date at the point of purchase.
This is nothing new - half-price flexible single tickets have been available for many years when purchased as part of a return journey. VTEC/LNER offered it for a long time even for one-way journeys.When doing work trips to London I often book an Advance for the outbound journey (cos I know when I need to get to London by) and a flexible Single for the journey back (so I can get the first available train once I get back to Kings Cross). Having a single at half the price of a return facilitates this. Also, a peak single one way and an off-peak single the other way saves money over a peak return.
Whilst you are correct that most passengers on shorter journeys do not break their journey overnight, it is more common for long journeys of the type where you might stop off to visit friends, relatives or attractions along your journey. Your assertion that only enthusiasts do this is simply not true; a number of my relatives make journeys of this type each year.Indeed, and I'm convinced only enthusiasts make use of it.
Whilst you are correct that most passengers on shorter journeys do not break their journey overnight, it is more common for long journeys of the type where you might stop off to visit friends, relatives or attractions along your journey. Your assertion that only enthusiasts do this is simply not true; a number of my relatives make journeys of this type each year.
I don't doubt that there's a lot of myths floating around. But it seems pretty obvious to me that if you have an "open return" (and this is still the term used by many even more than a decade after these tickets were abolished) then you can use it on any train between the start and the end station.It's clearly not going to be common. Out of interest, do you know how your relatives learned it was possible? Did they already know or did they discover it from you?
It's not, as far as I'm aware, something that's ever been advertised. Until I read it on this forum I believed break of journey was only on the day travel commenced unless the journey couldn't be completed in the same day. I was incorrect (has the definition ever changed?) but I doubt I'm alone.
I can see a couple of drawbacks with only buying a ticket at the last minute. If there's a group of you travelling, you may not be able to reserve seats together. If you would normally book assistance with your journey, you are asked to give 24 hours' notice for this.The aim of the scheme is to make the ticketing simpler, and I think it provides much better value this way - if you are only going one way then you're saving a ton of money, and if you are going both ways, then just buy two singles on the days you are travelling.
Have you spoken to anyone who shared your belief about break of journey? I can understand someone believing that you can't break your journey at all (an overnight stop where you can't complete your journey that day is not a break of journey, of course), because that's more or less how web sites plan journeys. A belief that you can break your journey as much as you like on the first day of travel, but not any other day, isn't something I've come across before now.Until I read it on this forum I believed break of journey was only on the day travel commenced unless the journey couldn't be completed in the same day. I was incorrect (has the definition ever changed?) but I doubt I'm alone.
I don't understand what you are saying and can only assume you have made a misunderstanding. There is no "loophole" in allowing an overnight break of journey.I disagree. With something like an Exeter to Edinburgh return I could spend a month travelling around the country. I really don't think most people would expect that's what an open ticket means. Excellent that it does, but surely a quirk of "return valid for a month" in combination with "break of journey permitted" rather than originally intended. Otherwise why is the outward portion also not valid on multiple days if break of journey is allowed?
It's a loophole. An attractive one, and one I'd like to take advantage of, but a loophole nonetheless.