LNER remove 'small number of services' from timetables

[ainsworth74]

Ok if they have a stock shortage but the last time I checked there is some suitable stock stored at Ely in the form of ex FGW HSTs why not make use of these in the interim.

Different interior (seat reservation headache), different interior fixtures and fittings (maintenance issues and crew familiarisation required) and different kitchen equipment (crew training required plus complicates delivery of catering) off the top of my head. Plus are the vehicles there actually spare (i.e. not waiting for work at Wabtec) and if so are there enough vehicles of the right type to form a full 2+9 set?

 

[hwl]

Plus are the vehicles there actually spare (i.e. not waiting for work at Wabtec) and if so are there enough vehicles of the right type to form a full 2+9 set?

Not really and No unless you want a mix of mainly buffet with little bit of First... and then there is the lack of power cars.

 

[Esker-pades]

Have the Scottish Government been consulted on the withdrawal of the Stirling service?

It's not up to them. LNER have decided to withdraw it for operational reasons, and the DfT have not objected. Even if they were consulted, there's very little they can do about it.

 

[Mag_seven]

It's not up to them.

I wouldn't be surprised if they have something to say about it though!

 

[Class 170101]

Not really and No unless you want a mix of mainly buffet with little bit of First... and then there is the lack of power cars.

https://twitter.com/Clinnick1/status/1027067834965417984 - Don't know if you can make out what the coaches are in that picture. Definitely attached to one power car though and I would be surprised if there wasn't one at the other end (out of shot).

 

[ainsworth74]

https://twitter.com/Clinnick1/media - Don't know if you can make out what the coaches are in that picture. Definitely attached to one power car though and I would be surprised if there wasn't one at the other end (out of shot).

Looks like a TF and a TGS. So! Only seven more vehicles and one more power car to go! Then we just have to overcome the other issues!

 

[hwl]

Looks like a TF and a TGS. So! Only seven more vehicles and one more power car to go! Then we just have to overcome the other issues!

See the HST withdrawal/ Scotland thread. They typically go to Ely complete as is and are initially next to the railway line where the the coaches are shunted around by the power cars to separate the surplus off lease coaches (ending up on the sidings furthest from the line) and then form a train to wabtec with the next set of coaches and power cars for mods. With OOC effectively gone there isn't much space on the GW to sort and store stuff before it leaves hence the new solution.

It looks like that could be a train soon to depart for Wabtec given a TGS and a TF

 

[Chrism20]

At those times Stirling was always going to be marginal although I’m sure when it was discussed on here at the launch it was said the early start was to provide an arrival into London before midday.

Northbound I think there would probably have been more usage had it been the 1700 or the 1730 rather than the 1500.although as others have said it gets terminated at Edinburgh at the first sign of problems on the line.

 

[158756]

Whilst this sort of change is never a good thing and has hopefully been subject to robust scrutiny both within LNER and also at the DfT it probably is better for passengers that steps are taken to run a reliable service by cutting a small number of services. That being said removing the 1745 from Leeds seems a brave move!

One of their tweets says they're cutting services fewer people book. So if the 1745 from Leeds is full of commuters they don't seem to figure in LNER's thinking - there are Pacers they can use instead. I doubt the same would be applied to commuters at the London end of the route though.

 

[Andyh82]

Disgraceful, bring back Virgin, It’s about time the railways were reprivatised!

 

[northernchris]

So a nationalised operator really isn't the answer to all the problems! On a serious note though, did Virgin add services to try to meet their repayments but ended up overstretching the fleet in the process? It's no secret LNER's performance has been dire and cannot be allowed to continue at those levels so hopefully these changes will see its performance creep back up.

The 1745 ex Leeds is a strange one to axe, that could push Wakefield commuters on to the already busy 1748 Sheffield service, and with the 1757 Doncaster being a regular contender for being cancelled due to the current EMU shortage it could be a bumpy few months for those travelling to Wakefield and Doncaster from Leeds

 

[Helvellyn]

Don't forget the regular spot hire of an EMT set between the peaks. Maybe EMT have said no more (it was previously one Stagecoach company helping out another) so LNER have decided to re-diagram trainsets to give itself an extra operational spare?

 

[Johnny Lewis]

Irritatingly, I'm booked on one of the cancelled services next Friday - the 15.03 from King's Cross. I had an email from LNER but struggled initially to find the information on their website.

Knowing how busy LNER trains get on Friday afternoons, I'm now in a quandary to decide which train to catch instead. The train half an hour later will presumably be very busy with all the poor unfortunates who haven't been told that the 15.03 is cancelled!

Any thoughts or suggestions?

 

[158756]

I also don't see how axing Stirling is going to improve reliability much. Unless of course they don't have the staff. Just looks like straightforward cost cutting to me.

 

[Marton]

I also don't see how axing Stirling is going to improve reliability much. Unless of course they don't have the staff. Just looks like straightforward cost cutting to me.

Isn’t the problem that it has to be an HST. If there’s disruption substitution doesn’t work.

 

[route101]

Isn’t the problem that it has to be an HST. If there’s disruption substitution doesn’t work.

When electrification is complete to Stirling , could mk4 sets be an option

 

[43094]

Cutting the Stirling services gives an additional 2 hours each side of the night, to help give sufficient time for the maintenance of HST sets at Craigentinny (main HST depot).

These Leeds services are the ones which are followed (KGX - DON & return) by the York stoppers. So anyone for stations Doncaster or South of there is inconvenienced less than any other cancellation options would be.

Cancelling those four MK4 sets removes one full diagram per day.

 

[Esker-pades]

Irritatingly, I'm booked on one of the cancelled services next Friday - the 15.03 from King's Cross. I had an email from LNER but struggled initially to find the information on their website.

Knowing how busy LNER trains get on Friday afternoons, I'm now in a quandary to decide which train to catch instead. The train half an hour later will presumably be very busy with all the poor unfortunates who haven't been told that the 15.03 is cancelled!

Any thoughts or suggestions?

I'd try and go for the one that is 30 minutes earlier. Can't guarantee anything though.

 

[xotGD]

Cutting the Stirling services gives an additional 2 hours each side of the night, to help give sufficient time for the maintenance of HST sets at Craigentinny (main HST depot).

These Leeds services are the ones which are followed (KGX - DON & return) by the York stoppers. So anyone for stations Doncaster or South of there is inconvenienced less than any other cancellation options would be.

Cancelling those four MK4 sets removes one full diagram per day.

Presumably cancelling the Mark 4 diagram is due to a lack of sets of stock rather than locos. They could always hire in another 90 if needed.

 

[Hadders]

I'd try and go for the one that is 30 minutes earlier. Can't guarantee anything though.

If you go for the later one you’ll be able to claim delay repay.

 

[Hadders]

This may not be stock related. It could be LNER’s way of dealing with driver/guard/crew shortages.

Either way it’s probably more cost effective to just cancel the service so they can return more money to the treasury.

 

[43094]

It's stock related - both sets and locos.

There's already 3x90 on hire at the moment, either one or two of which are used each day - the difficulty is the relevant Driver knowledge (and 110MPH top speed), which means hiring another one to use in service isn't really feasible.

 

[cactustwirly]

It's stock related - both sets and locos.

There's already 3x90 on hire at the moment, either one or two of which are used each day - the difficulty is the relevant Driver knowledge (and 110MPH top speed), which means hiring another one to use in service isn't really feasible.

How come the 91 availability is so bad?
I don't recall East Coast having these issues with them

 

[ainsworth74]

How come the 91 availability is so bad?
I don't recall East Coast having these issues with them

East Coast weren't working them as hard as the current timetable requires as has been mentioned elsewhere the fleet is being worked harder than ever before which increases the strain on the vehicles at the same time as it reduces the time available to actually keep them functional. They're also that bit older and that bit further from the heavy work they had done to them in the early 00s to improve reliability.

 

[hwl]

East Coast weren't working them as hard as the current timetable requires as has been mentioned elsewhere the fleet is being worked harder than ever before which increases the strain on the vehicles at the same time as it reduces the time available to actually keep them functional. They're also that bit older and that bit further from the heavy work they had done to them in the early 00s to improve reliability.

There was also some bad snow damage to the electric on 1 loco that was meant to put it out of action for months?

 

[matacaster]

Quoted from LNER Leeds and Stirling Services Timetables changes today

"If you’re booked to travel on one of the affected trains, please travel on an earlier or later LNER train on the same day - your ticket will of course be valid."

My wife and I are booked on 11.58 from Wakefield to LKX on 15th September 2018, which I think is the 11.45 from Leeds.

Does this mean we can catch a peak time train despite the fact that we've currently got cheapest advance tickets going (but will likely try to upgrade to weekend first)?

 

[_toommm_]

Quoted from LNER Leeds and Stirling Services Timetables changes today

"If you’re booked to travel on one of the affected trains, please travel on an earlier or later LNER train on the same day - your ticket will of course be valid."

My wife and I are booked on 11.58 from Wakefield to LKX on 15th September 2018, which I think is the 11.45 from Leeds.

Does this mean we can catch a peak time train despite the fact that we've currently got cheapest advance tickets going (but will likely try to upgrade to weekend first)?

Normally in those circumstances it's one train either side i.e. 11:15 or 12:15 from Leeds, though no harm can come from tweeting LNER and seeing if you can travel at a different time!

 

[ainsworth74]

Does this mean we can catch a peak time train despite the fact that we've currently got cheapest advance tickets going (but will likely try to upgrade to weekend first)?

Whilst it doesn't explicitly say I'd be wary trying to go for anything other than the service before or after and certainly not one several hours removed from the booked service.

 

[matacaster]

Whilst it doesn't explicitly say I'd be wary trying to go for anything other than the service before or after and certainly not one several hours removed from the booked service.

Thanks, duly noted. Thought it was too good to be true!

 

[Martin66]

Whilst it doesn't explicitly say I'd be wary trying to go for anything other than the service before or after and certainly not one several hours removed from the booked service.

Thanks, duly noted. Thought it was too good to be true!

The LNER website says: https://www.lner.co.uk/travel-information/leeds-timetable-changes/

If you’re booked to travel on one of the affected trains, please travel on an earlier or later LNER train on the same day - your ticket will of course be valid.

It would appear there are no time restrictions as long as you travel on the same day.