LNER remove 'small number of services' from timetables

[Starmill]

The LNER website says: https://www.lner.co.uk/travel-information/leeds-timetable-changes/

It would appear there are no time restrictions as long as you travel on the same day.

A strict reading of this does indeed seem to permit any train the same day.

I am not sure if I would try it, but there's no denying it says what it says.

In some circumstances e.g the 1745, one may find that the following train is subject to overcrowding as it carries both train loads of passengers. I would certainly feel justified in perhaps taking the second available train in circumstances where I couldn't be sure of an available unreserved seat. Especially as, if your train is cancelled, you lose your reservation.

 

[43096]

East Coast weren't working them as hard as the current timetable requires as has been mentioned elsewhere the fleet is being worked harder than ever before which increases the strain on the vehicles at the same time as it reduces the time available to actually keep them functional. They're also that bit older and that bit further from the heavy work they had done to them in the early 00s to improve reliability.

91119 still out with fire damage, too.

 

[Non Multi]

A strict reading of this does indeed seem to permit any train the same day.

I am not sure if I would try it, but there's no denying it says what it says.

In some circumstances e.g the 1745, one may find that the following train is subject to overcrowding as it carries both train loads of passengers. I would certainly feel justified in perhaps taking the second available train in circumstances where I couldn't be sure of an available unreserved seat. Especially as, if your train is cancelled, you lose your reservation.

That was my view upon reading the notice, in exchange for losing the reserved seat you're given some flexibility over your replacement journey. Frankly it's a bit silly to be standing on a long distance service if there's a chance of a seat on a later train, providing you're not in a hurry.

 

[ainsworth74]

A strict reading of this does indeed seem to permit any train the same day.

I am not sure if I would try it, but there's no denying it says what it says.

This is very much my view. The wording would seem to permit any train on the same day. I'm just not sure it's wise to do treat it so broadly. Especially if one wants an easy life!

 

[TUC]

Can you omagine a supermarket sayong 'we're hsving difficulty providing a reliable service at certain times of day so we're gping to close between 1430 and 1500 and between 1730 and 1800.' Such an approach would regarded as commerically stupid, smaclong of incompetence and lacking on customer servoce. LNER should be treated the same way.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Can you omagine a supermarket sayong 'we're hsving difficulty providing a reliable service at certain times of day so we're gping to close between 1430 and 1500 and between 1730 and 1800.' Such an approach would regarded as commerically stupid, smaclong of incompetence and lacking on customer servoce. LNER should be treated the same way.

Wouldn't the better analogy be if they had to close at those times anyway very often because of a lack of staff able to work those times or because of issues with the building that need fixing, so to make sure the customers know what to expect (that they can turn up when the supermarket says it is open and it is actually open), they just say they will close at those times anyway everyday for a while until those issues are sorted?

Taking it back to the railways, GWR have had similar rolling stock and staff related issues over the last year, and I would much rather that they made some temporary changes to the timetable so passengers could actually rely on the timetable and be pretty sure that a timetabled service will actually run, rather than it being the guessing game it currently seems to be.

 

[43096]

Can you omagine a supermarket sayong 'we're hsving difficulty providing a reliable service at certain times of day so we're gping to close between 1430 and 1500 and between 1730 and 1800.' Such an approach would regarded as commerically stupid, smaclong of incompetence and lacking on customer servoce. LNER should be treated the same way.

To add to that, compare and contrast with what the outcry would have been like had Virgin done this during its time in charge. There would have been hordes of forum posters foaming at the mouth about it....

 

[87015]

To add to that, compare and contrast with what the outcry would have been like had Virgin done this during its time in charge. There would have been hordes of forum posters foaming at the mouth about it....

GTR (etc) have set the precedent now. Cats out the bag just like when PG cancelling overnight became the done thing for any excuse (rather than “act of god” it was for) to fiddle the figures..

 

[Ianno87]

Can you omagine a supermarket sayong 'we're hsving difficulty providing a reliable service at certain times of day so we're gping to close between 1430 and 1500 and between 1730 and 1800.' Such an approach would regarded as commerically stupid, smaclong of incompetence and lacking on customer servoce. LNER should be treated the same way.

Supermarkets can run out of stock, or have ongoing supply chain issues. Used to work in a Tesco. Occasionally, totally sold out of bread or milk, example, early in day. To customers, pretty 'basic' stuff.

 

[Romilly]

Saying that you can take an earlier or later LNER train on the same day won't be of much help to passengers booked to travel between Stirling & Edinburgh on the cancelled Stirling trains, as from 27 August the only LNER trains between Stirling and Edinburgh will be the once daily trains to/from Inverness. Presumably arrangements will be made for ticket acceptance on Scotrail.

 

[philthetube]

Quoted from LNER Leeds and Stirling Services Timetables changes today

"If you’re booked to travel on one of the affected trains, please travel on an earlier or later LNER train on the same day - your ticket will of course be valid."

My wife and I are booked on 11.58 from Wakefield to LKX on 15th September 2018, which I think is the 11.45 from Leeds.

Does this mean we can catch a peak time train despite the fact that we've currently got cheapest advance tickets going (but will likely try to upgrade to weekend first)?

I would have thought yes, but print out the document and carry it with you.

Are there any peak trains at weekends?

 

[Hadders]

One consequence of fewer trains running is fewer Advance tickets being available. This is effectively a price increase.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

At those times Stirling was always going to be marginal although I’m sure when it was discussed on here at the launch it was said the early start was to provide an arrival into London before midday.
Northbound I think there would probably have been more usage had it been the 1700 or the 1730 rather than the 1500.although as others have said it gets terminated at Edinburgh at the first sign of problems on the line.

We are getting close to the point where electric services can run to Stirling.
Virgin West Coast proposed an electric service (when wired) in the aborted 2012 ICWC bid.
The new West Coast Partnership bids from 2019 are now on DfT's desk too, so we will soon find out if the WCP winner intends to operate to Stirling.
One way or another I suspect Stirling will get extra London services before long, possibly via both routes.

 

[Hadders]

We are getting close to the point where electric services can run to Stirling.
Virgin West Coast proposed an electric service (when wired) in the aborted 2012 ICWC bid.
The new West Coast Partnership bids from 2019 are now on DfT's desk too, so we will soon find out if the WCP winner intends to operate to Stirling.
One way or another I suspect Stirling will get extra London services before long, possibly via both routes.

The opposite is happening with LNER removing their Stirling service.....

 

[Chrism20]

We are getting close to the point where electric services can run to Stirling.
Virgin West Coast proposed an electric service (when wired) in the aborted 2012 ICWC bid.
The new West Coast Partnership bids from 2019 are now on DfT's desk too, so we will soon find out if the WCP winner intends to operate to Stirling.
One way or another I suspect Stirling will get extra London services before long, possibly via both routes.

Stirling (And Perth) should probably have more than one London service a day I've no doubt about that. Once it's wired though the ScotRail services to Stirling will be expresses stopping only at Larbert, Camelon, Falkirk and Edinburgh Park. The speeding up of those services along with an additional two services an hour going through the Newbridge bottleneck may make the East Coast operator think twice. Build the Almond Chord and it's possibly more attractive.

A West Coast service IMO (and I stress IMO) would be a basket case without it going through one of the main Scottish termini of Edinburgh or Glasgow. The opening up of easy access to stations on West Coast such as Carlisle, Preston etc may make it more viable and attractive but realistically sending a Pendolino on a detour to Stirling on anything but an early morning or late evening service (A la East Coast) would again IMO be a complete waste of resources and if you send it to one of the main termini first all of a sudden the LNER & ScotRail Express looks more favourable time wise.

 

[ainsworth74]

The opposite is happening with LNER removing their Stirling service.....

Yes, temporarily whilst they are unable to reliably operate it. Has there been any suggestion that this is a permanent state of affairs?

 

[Hadders]

Yes, temporarily whilst they are unable to reliably operate it. Has there been any suggestion that this is a permanent state of affairs?

On the other hand there's nothing in their announcement suggesting that it's a temporary cancellation either.

 

[Starmill]

Yes, temporarily whilst they are unable to reliably operate it. Has there been any suggestion that this is a permanent state of affairs?

It seems to have been put forward entirely agnostically. It doesn't provide a date, even a broad one, for reinstating these services.

 

[Mag_seven]

Has there been any suggestion that this is a permanent state of affairs?

My reading of the statement is that it is permanent.

 

[yorksrob]

Perhaps the proof will be with the introduction of the first 800 class trains into service. Will they reintroduce the service as rolling stock is increased, or will they start sending back mk4's instead.

 

[43094]

It's supposed to be temporary at the moment...

 

[stuart]

While I'm sorry to see any diminution of the LNER service north of Edinburgh, I always thought the extension of one service to Stirling was an odd one, with Stirling being so close to Edinburgh and relatively well-served by local services. Much more useful, perhaps, would have been an extension to Perth, or perhaps even a second daily service through to Inverness (yes, I know paths on the HML are a problem). One train a day to Inverness compared to three a day to Aberdeen always seemed a bit imbalanced!

 

[route:oxford]

While I'm sorry to see any diminution of the LNER service north of Edinburgh, I always thought the extension of one service to Stirling was an odd one, with Stirling being so close to Edinburgh and relatively well-served by local services. Much more useful, perhaps, would have been an extension to Perth, or perhaps even a second daily service through to Inverness (yes, I know paths on the HML are a problem). One train a day to Inverness compared to three a day to Aberdeen always seemed a bit imbalanced!

The loss of the Stirling service will be a pest. The early morning one wasn't *that* useful to me, but the 3pm was great for heading North on a Friday afternoon.

Let's hope it returns, or an Open Access Operator manages to get some HSTs and a return path to Perth. LSL might have some available to hire!

 

[FQTV]

To add to that, compare and contrast with what the outcry would have been like had Virgin done this during its time in charge. There would have been hordes of forum posters foaming at the mouth about it....

The point could be made that Virgin Trains East Coast did do this regularly to the Stirling and Sunderland services, but with little or no warning.

It was their bid that involved the highly-intensive running of an ageing fleet, which they then appeared unwilling or unable to invest in the maintenance of.

Nipping to Halfords for some replacement seat covers would not keep a 40 year old Cortina or Cavalier in top mechanical order, and nor did it for HSTs.

 

[43096]

Nipping to Halfords for some replacement seat covers would not keep a 40 year old Cortina or Cavalier in top mechanical order, and nor did it for HSTs.

You clearly have no idea as to what Craigentinny do, then. VTEC HSTs are the most reliable HST fleet.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Its temporary according to the Modern Railway Magazine. The services were removed to improve performance and reduce demand on rolling stock. This will remain until performance improves.

 

[Marton]

Its temporary according to the Modern Railway Magazine. The services were removed to improve performance and reduce demand on rolling stock. This will remain until performance improves.

How bad is the backlog of maintenance?

Every day there are some services without disabled loos and frequent missing coaches.

Is it the age of the stock or the VTEC legacy. It was never so bad with EC/DOO.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

How bad is the backlog of maintenance?

Every day there are some services without disabled loos and frequent missing coaches.

Is it the age of the stock or the VTEC legacy. It was never so bad with EC/DOO.

The service will remain like this until 8 December 2018.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Stirling (And Perth) should probably have more than one London service a day I've no doubt about that. Once it's wired though the ScotRail services to Stirling will be expresses stopping only at Larbert, Camelon, Falkirk and Edinburgh Park. The speeding up of those services along with an additional two services an hour going through the Newbridge bottleneck may make the East Coast operator think twice. Build the Almond Chord and it's possibly more attractive.

A West Coast service IMO (and I stress IMO) would be a basket case without it going through one of the main Scottish termini of Edinburgh or Glasgow. The opening up of easy access to stations on West Coast such as Carlisle, Preston etc may make it more viable and attractive but realistically sending a Pendolino on a detour to Stirling on anything but an early morning or late evening service (A la East Coast) would again IMO be a complete waste of resources and if you send it to one of the main termini first all of a sudden the LNER & ScotRail Express looks more favourable time wise.

The only extremely unlikely but ever possible option would be something like a pair of Voyagers (how bad would that be!) on a permissive working jobby at Carlisle. The 06:30 could leave at 06:40 and run up behind the Stirling starter which picks up the Motherwell and Lockerbie stops; although then it could go back as the 11:43 Glasgow via Birmingham. Not sure what sort of thing you'd need on the return journey but probably the 17:30 with a split at Carlisle. Glasgow portion goes fast, Stirling portion stops at Lockerbie, Motherwell and Stirling. Would you have a just cause to stop anywhere else? Cumbernauld and Carstairs if only 5 coaches?

 

[cactustwirly]

How bad is the backlog of maintenance?

Every day there are some services without disabled loos and frequent missing coaches.

Is it the age of the stock or the VTEC legacy. It was never so bad with EC/DOO.

This isn't just a LNER problem, GWR also have this with their HSTs