LNER Timetable change: should a footnote be provided when a train is extended ?

Discussion in 'Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables' started by 43106, 15 May 2019.

  1. 43106

    43106 Member

    Messages:
    361
    Joined:
    6 Jul 2008
    Location:
    South-ish Edinburgh
    The LNER 1230 train from Kings Cross to Newcastle appears to have an unadvertised extension. My brother-in-law has booked a holiday in London, and gets train tickets as part of the deal. On the train back, he's been booked on the 1230 from KGX on Monday 27th May, which is supposed to arrive in Edinburgh at 1714. He asked me if the train terminated at Edinburgh, or went further (Inverness, Aberdeen of Glasgow). I checked the timetable on the LNER web-site, and found it actually terminates at Newcastle. It DOES go to Edinburgh, but from the 9th September! I told him to ring LNER, which he did. They (LNER) said that the 1230 WOULD be extended to Edinburgh on the 27th because it's an English (not Scottish) Bank Holiday. Despite that, LNER have NOT corrected the timetable on their web-site. In view of this, has my brother-in-law got grounds for concern, that it WON'T go to Edinburgh?
     
  2. Registered users do not see these banners - join or log in today!

    Rail Forums

     
  3. 221129

    221129 Established Member

    Messages:
    4,660
    Joined:
    21 Mar 2011
    Location:
    Sunny Scotland
    No cause for concern. It is booked to go to Edinburgh on 27/05 only.
     
  4. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Forum Staff Staff Member Global Moderator

    Messages:
    21,586
    Joined:
    16 Nov 2009
    Location:
    Redcar
  5. Glenn1969

    Glenn1969 Member

    Messages:
    944
    Joined:
    22 Jan 2019
    LNER is running to Edinburgh every 30 minutes from 0700 to 1900 except 1430 on Bank Holiday Monday. Is there are WCML blockade that means EC needs to run extra services to Scotland?
     
  6. 43106

    43106 Member

    Messages:
    361
    Joined:
    6 Jul 2008
    Location:
    South-ish Edinburgh
    Thanks to 221129 & Ainsworth74. I'm re-assured, but when I told my Brother-in-Law, he couldn't understand why it wasn't in the LNER timetable. I also checked the NRT timetable, and it isn't there either. Is there a reason for this, or is it a straight-forward cock-up?
     
  7. D6700

    D6700 Member

    Messages:
    491
    Joined:
    13 Mar 2010
    From what has been written, it's not a cock up, it's a planned alteration for that day alone, due to anticipated demand. It isn't in the NRT or LNER printed timetable because it doesn't normally run.
     
  8. Darandio

    Darandio Established Member

    Messages:
    7,804
    Joined:
    24 Feb 2007
    Location:
    Redcar
    I'm not even sure what the issue is here? Is it because it isn't in the main timetable (.pdf) on the LNER website? They aren't going to re-publish the whole timetable because one service is amended for a day.
     
  9. yorkie

    yorkie Forum Staff Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    46,637
    Joined:
    6 Jun 2005
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    There is no "error".

    Things have moved on in recent years; printed timetables are now only useful to show the usual expected service provision.

    If you want to know the currently planned service provision with any alterations, you need to use an online journey planner or open data website.

    You can't rely on printed documents or PDFs.
     
  10. 800001

    800001 Member

    Messages:
    585
    Joined:
    24 Oct 2015
    For several bank holidays over the last year or two, they have extended various services to Edinburgh and started some back at wsinburgh to help with heavy bank holiday passenger loading.
     
  11. FQTV

    FQTV Member

    Messages:
    656
    Joined:
    27 Apr 2012
    Indeed; they did this over Easter for example, and the extra capacity was certainly needed. Trains were full and standing down the aisles - in First Class as well - on departure from Waverley on the King's Cross bound one that I was on.
     
  12. pdeaves

    pdeaves Established Member

    Messages:
    2,961
    Joined:
    14 Sep 2014
    Location:
    Gateway to the South West
    Quite. It's fundamentally the same as an 'engineering works alteration', but giving a better journey rather than worse one.
     
  13. route:oxford

    route:oxford Established Member

    Messages:
    4,855
    Joined:
    1 Nov 2008
    The 27th May is a Bank Holiday in Scotland.
     
  14. Bevan Price

    Bevan Price Established Member

    Messages:
    4,674
    Joined:
    22 Apr 2010
    On the WCML, Crewe to Warrington & Runcorn are closed for part of the Bank Holiday weekend, 25-27 May 2019. Trains to/from Scotland are diverted via Manchester, increasing journey times.
     
  15. 43106

    43106 Member

    Messages:
    361
    Joined:
    6 Jul 2008
    Location:
    South-ish Edinburgh
    Not strictly correct. The May 27th Bank Holiday is Whit Bank Monday. In the years I've worked in Edinburgh (since 1974), I've never had Whit Bank Monday as a holiday (though the banks do close). We have a local holiday called Victoria Day, which is usually a week or two before Whitsun, so I'm not sure what's going on, unless Victoria Day and Whit Bank Holiday is actually coinciding!
     
  16. kilonewton

    kilonewton Member

    Messages:
    152
    Joined:
    19 Apr 2010
    Location:
    Scotland no more
    As above, some have it, some don’t. The company I work for takes it for the Glasgow office, but takes Victoria Day for the Edinburgh office. West Lothian schools take Victoria Day, except for Bathgate and Linlithgow Clusters who have Newlands and Marches days respectively. Very handy for childcare, not.
    Oh and whilst the company I work for in Glasgow takes Whit Bank Holiday (never knew that was a name for it), the client I’m seconded to in Glasgow doesn’t take it, but does take Glasgow Fair, which my company doesn’t.
     
  17. Steve Harris

    Steve Harris Member

    Messages:
    418
    Joined:
    11 Dec 2016
    Location:
    ECML
    So, what has happened to the good old footnote ???

    Used to get used a lot for this kind of thing.
     
  18. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

    Messages:
    23,778
    Joined:
    12 Oct 2010
    Location:
    Work - Fenny Stratford(MK) Home - Darlington
    It isnt a cock up. It has been extended from Newcastle to Edinburgh on that day. I don't know why but I am sure someone can explain. ( is it one of the 564290 Scottish Bank holidays?)

    perhaps the request to extend the train/decision to accept the request hadn't been made when the timetables went to press and it isnt worth fiddling about to add a later footnote when most people will rely on an on line service to plan their journey?
     
  19. 30907

    30907 Established Member

    Messages:
    8,374
    Joined:
    30 Sep 2012
    Location:
    Airedale
    https://www.lner.co.uk/travel-information/timetable-changes/

    The text when you choose the relevant date reads:

    It isn't linked from the Bank Holiday travel page, though.

    Specific footnotes in the printed timetables (as opposed to a generic one about holidays and weekends) would be overkill for alterations that apply maybe 4 times in a timetable period.
     
  20. Steve Harris

    Steve Harris Member

    Messages:
    418
    Joined:
    11 Dec 2016
    Location:
    ECML
    Perhaps someone couldn't be bothered !! Afterall, who gives a toss about the fare paying passenger (customer), the're just a pain in the butt anyway.

    It takes like 60 secs to add a footnote to a Word document and probably another 60 secs to convert to a pdf and upload to a server (depends on how fast your PC and internet connection are of course).

    I should know, I've done it in the past myself.

    P.S. I consider a pdf which has been published online to actually be classed as a online service.
     
  21. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

    Messages:
    23,778
    Joined:
    12 Oct 2010
    Location:
    Work - Fenny Stratford(MK) Home - Darlington
    Ok. I am not suggesting it is a hard job! Perhaps the policy may be not to bother anymore because the vast majority of passengers will be using an online system to plan their journey. I understand that is an anathema to posters here who seem to obsess over holding paper timetables but most people simply don't use them. They use their phone.
     
  22. Tom B

    Tom B Established Member

    Messages:
    4,470
    Joined:
    27 Jul 2005
    It might be arguably different if some services didn't run or turned short, but this is the opposite. Usually, timetables have a general footnote about checking at weekends/public holidays as a catch all.
     
  23. Tetchytyke

    Tetchytyke Established Member

    Messages:
    10,533
    Joined:
    12 Sep 2013
    Location:
    Isle of Man
    The one-off change is on the LNER website with full details, so they did do this. As the PDFs say, the times are subject to change for engineering works and other changes. So I'm really not sure what the beef is. If you adore paper you can print pages off the website or copy it into Word.

    It is going to Edinburgh.

    Word of warning: it is extended because London Euston is closed all weekend. The train will be VERY busy.
     
  24. Steve Harris

    Steve Harris Member

    Messages:
    418
    Joined:
    11 Dec 2016
    Location:
    ECML
    Oh. I have no beef. I do have some lamb in the freezer though!

    Please read the post that the post you have quoted refers to and you just may understand the point I'm making....Perhaps.
     
  25. pdeaves

    pdeaves Established Member

    Messages:
    2,961
    Joined:
    14 Sep 2014
    Location:
    Gateway to the South West
    The 'printed' timetable does not show every single alteration for engineering works, only the normal service. The train under consideration is an engineering work alteration.
     
  26. RT4038

    RT4038 Member

    Messages:
    682
    Joined:
    22 Feb 2014
    Many transport companies have ceased publishing tabular timetables at all - who (other than an enthusiast) would search for a tabular airline timetable for instance? I expect it is mainly Train enthusiasts who look at such things in this country for train services. I am not surprised that TOCs don't waste resources keeping them up to date with minor changes. Use the journey planner - that is what it is there for!
     
  27. Steve Harris

    Steve Harris Member

    Messages:
    418
    Joined:
    11 Dec 2016
    Location:
    ECML
    I will let you come round and teach my 84 year old father how to use it then !

    I have tried, but he much prefers what he is used to (a printed timetable, or normally a pdf document which i download and print off for him).
     
  28. 30907

    30907 Established Member

    Messages:
    8,374
    Joined:
    30 Sep 2012
    Location:
    Airedale
    I, too, much prefer a pdf timetable in some contexts, and remember the days when every Bank Holiday came with a supplement of alterations, all printed in red - because the sort of variations we are discussing have never (what, never? Well, hardly ever...) appeared in public timetables.

    Other countries differ - SNCF specialised in footnotes and dated timings, or here is the timetable for Flixtrain's Berlin-Cologne service which runs to 11 different sets of timings and 14 dated footnotes for a total of 10 trains per week.
    https://cdn.flixbus.de/2019-04/Fahrplan_FLX30_landscape_A4_23.05.19_02.pdf

    It took me 10 minutes to fathom that one, and I consider myself an expert.
     
    Last edited: 18 May 2019
  29. RT4038

    RT4038 Member

    Messages:
    682
    Joined:
    22 Feb 2014
    Hence the now near universal use of journey planners in the transport industry.
    However, in this case, the journey planner was not believed and a little to much knowledge has then caused a lot of stress. Completely unnecessarily. 99.9% of train passengers would never have sought to look up old fashioned tabular timetables to check on the veracity of journey planner information, and TOCs are right not to spend resource on keeping them perfect.
    (And I prefer tabular timetables too, but I am moving with the times.....)
     
  30. TheBigD

    TheBigD Member

    Messages:
    908
    Joined:
    19 Nov 2008
    Going by the last couple of bank holiday Mondays and WCML closures this train should be OK. I caught this train Peterborough to Newcastle last Bank holiday Monday and it was busy but nowhere near full and standing. Northbound overcrowding was earlier in the day but it quietened down after lunch.

    Most of the overcrowding has been on the afternoon/early evening southbound, with some trains horrendously overcrowded.
     
  31. MichaelAMW

    MichaelAMW Member

    Messages:
    908
    Joined:
    18 Jun 2010
    Complete timetables remain important as they give you an indication of the overall service and the approximate hours of the day that the service is provided.
     

Share This Page