LNER to retain some Class 91s & Mk4 sets for a bit longer

D365

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I can’t see why open access operators would want to take Class 91s in favour of Class 90s, unless they have a significant need for 125mph running, or there aren’t enough Class 90s to go around.
 
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Journeyman

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Personally, I prefer the Mk4 to an Azuma, but there’s little in it and the quality of maintenance will make a big difference to my choice - the Mk4s are increasingly suffering from age and the inevitable winding down of maintenance.
I travelled from Edinburgh to London in a first class Mk 4 today, and couldn't see out the window due to a huge amount of condensation between the panes. Another window of the same carriage had the same problem. I've never seen that before.
 

Peter Mugridge

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I travelled from Edinburgh to London in a first class Mk 4 today, and couldn't see out the window due to a huge amount of condensation between the panes. Another window of the same carriage had the same problem. I've never seen that before.
Blown window seal - let's moisture in between the panes of glass, it condenses and if left unfixed for long enough you can eventually get several inches of water building up at the bottom between the panes and it then sloshes about as the train accelerates and brakes.
 

43096

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35B

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Blown window seal - let's moisture in between the panes of glass, it condenses and if left unfixed for long enough you can eventually get several inches of water building up at the bottom between the panes and it then sloshes about as the train accelerates and brakes.
Indeed - but something I also don't recall on GNER/NXEC/ECR/VTEC/LNER, so suggestive that Hitachi have allowed maintenance standards on the Mk4s to fall since taking over responsibility.
 

plugwash

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I travelled from Edinburgh to London in a first class Mk 4 today, and couldn't see out the window due to a huge amount of condensation between the panes. Another window of the same carriage had the same problem. I've never seen that before.
I used to see it frequently in the past, but it seems to have become much less common in recent years. I guess the double glazing units they are fitting now are better sealed than they used to be.
 

yorksrob

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Doesn't it look fantastic? It's a classic livery on a really impressive machine. Really glad they did that repaint.
Indeed. They did a good job.

To be fair, I saw it a lot at Leeds last year, then not at all as the Azumas came on line, so it's a bit of a reunion !
 

Journeyman

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Indeed. They did a good job.

To be fair, I saw it a lot at Leeds last year, then not at all as the Azumas came on line, so it's a bit of a reunion !
I travel between Edinburgh and London quite regularly, there's still quite a few Mark 4 sets on that.

I reckon the Azuma is an impressive train, but an ECML without HSTs and 91s is going to take some getting used to.
 

hexagon789

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I haven't seen any official confirmation, but has LNER officially said whether the retained 225s will be concentrated on Leeds workings? Or indeed any other details?

Thanks for any info :)
 

yorksrob

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I travel between Edinburgh and London quite regularly, there's still quite a few Mark 4 sets on that.

I reckon the Azuma is an impressive train, but an ECML without HSTs and 91s is going to take some getting used to.
Never a truer word said.

Particularly the lack of HST's.
 

Tynwald

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Its a failed double glazing unit. most trains have double glazed window units now so it will/can effect all fleets. depends on spares availabilty, and the available time to change them.
 

hexagon789

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Any further details on number to be retained and or route they will be concentrated on?
I've seen rumours, but last I'd heard LNER were still to officially confirmed the number of locos, Mk4 sets, how long they'd retain then for exactly and which route(s) they will be concentrated on.
 

hexagon789

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In latest release of RAIL magazine it says they want to retain 10 sets but whether that’s set in concrete I’m not too sure
I've seen that figure and concentration on Leeds workings mentioned, but as I said I haven't actually seen anything "proper" from LNER themselves as yet.
 

Rhydgaled

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In latest release of RAIL magazine it says they want to retain 10 sets but whether that’s set in concrete I’m not too sure
The March 2020 'Modern Railways' says "Around 10 sets are expected to be retained" - note the 'around' in there which suggests they aren't entirely sure. Whether they will be dedicated to certain routes is unconfirmed, but it seemed pretty certain that they'll stay as 9-car rakes until Dec 2021 after which they may be reduced to 2+7.
 

Mag_seven

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This must come as a bit of an embarrassment to the DfT who I assume wanted the entire ECML franchise to be IET operated. Is this a stop gap measure until all the IET sets are delivered and operating satisfactorily?
 

delt1c

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I travel between Edinburgh and London quite regularly, there's still quite a few Mark 4 sets on that.

I reckon the Azuma is an impressive train, but an ECML without HSTs and 91s is going to take some getting used to.
An East Coast without Delt1c’s took a lot of getting used to ( still miss the smell, sight and sound)
 

Chester1

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This must come as a bit of an embarrassment to the DfT who I assume wanted the entire ECML franchise to be IET operated. Is this a stop gap measure until all the IET sets are delivered and operating satisfactorily?
No, its because more services are planned for December 2021. These were not planned at the time of the IET order. A new order looks very likely but probably can't be delivered before 2023. It has to go out to an open tender, followed by the usual lead time to build them and get them into service. Compatibility requirements could be specified to make it a done deal for Hitachi.
 

duffield

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Rail magazine reports some class 91s/MK4s to be kept by LNER until 2023:
https://www.railmagazine.com/news/fleet/lner-to-keep-class-91s-until-2023

Class 91s hauling Mk 4s will remain with London North Eastern Railway until 2023.

Ten rakes of coaches and ten ‘91s’ will be used, with two additional spare ‘91s’ and a handful of spare Mk 4s also retained.

Initially all were due to have been withdrawn by the end of June. However, LNER has extended the life of certain locomotives and coaches until the end of next year to ensure it has sufficient trains to meet franchised timetable commitments. They are also needed to cover for unavailable Hitachi Azumas that require modifications to their inter-car connectors (RAIL 901).

The extension is until the end of 2023 while LNER sources brand new trains, which would take a minimum of around two years to build and deliver. The operator has previously told RAIL it needs around six new trains.

Details as to which Class 91s and Mk 4s will be retained have not been finalised, nor the routes on which they will operate.
 

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