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LNWR ‘No Rag and Bone Men’ Sign — Is It Genuine?

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Dr_Paul

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This enamel sign came up in a Facebook thread. As can be seen, it is dated 1901, but the layout and fonts somehow don't seem right to me, they look rather too modern. Is it genuine?
LNWR Sign 1.jpg
 
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In a word, NO (like many railwayana items on eBay purporting to be original). This item was probably bought in the gift shop at a preserved railway in the very early twenty first century!
 

bill1953

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This enamel sign came up in a Facebook thread. As can be seen, it is dated 1901, but the layout and fonts somehow don't seem right to me, they look rather too modern. Is it genuine?
View attachment 85099
Yes the font and the layout certainly give it away don't they? It's a bit like the myriad pub signs that started to circulate from the 1970's onwards all of which were based on original and genuine notices from 18th century coaching inns although the terminology became corrupted to a ridiculous extent. I did find this genuine notice in what was once one of Carlisle's state owned pubs The Cumberland Inn which addresses 'undesirable women' and dates from as recently as the 1960s. Sorry about the poor quality it was not only the camera that was out of focus.
 

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61653 HTAFC

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There's a fair chance the photo was taken inside the Station Bar at Stalybridge.
I'm not convinced the text on the sign is an authentic reproduction of a period sign.
 

bill1953

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Another version of the same sign supposed too as genuine. At least only two colours are used which is more convincing but still lacking the usual durability and hardiness of materials normally used in old railway signage which was made to last decades at least. The perspex covering too is rather unusual for 1901!
 

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Lloyds siding

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It's a very long time since my typesetting days, so I may be wrong. The LNWR title looks to be in Perpetua typeface, first released in 1929.
Don't know about NOTICE...it looks very modern.
The main body of text looks to be Johnston, designed for London Transport in 1916, and derivatives of which make up most railway signage in the present day.
 

Sheridan

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Might the 1901 refer to when the railway company’s order was written, rather than the date of the production of the sign itself? So as signs needed replacing they would have new typefaces, but retain the original date when that order came into force?

So this reproduction could be based on, say, a 1960s sign referring to the 1901 order?
 
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For Euston all you need to do is update Rag and Bone men for drug dealers , Hawkers for Heather or single flower sellers , Ballard Singers for Buskers and pretty much nothing has changed since 1901!!
 

XAM2175

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Might the 1901 refer to when the railway company’s order was written, rather than the date of the production of the sign itself? ...
So this reproduction could be based on, say, a 1960s sign referring to the 1901 order?

Theoretically this is possible, but I'd say unlikely in this case as any sign commissioned after 1948 would surely have made reference to British Railways rather than LNWR.
 

Mcr Warrior

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So the conclusion is that it's a semi-humourous mock up done by someone with a less than total regard for historical accuracy?
 

bill1953

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I found this one in the carriage toilet of a Virgin rail train a few years back.
 

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bill1953

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Yes indeed and while reading it I could feel Branson sniggering and snuffling over my shoulder, not a good experience in such a confined space.
 

Peter Mugridge

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I think they were in all the 390's. Just another example of the rather tiresome "wacky" Virgin branding.

At least one other TOC still uses those signs; I can't remember which one it is though despite seeing it in the past month or so - might be Greater Anglia?
 

EbbwJunction1

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There's a reference to a company called GWR Benches on the "TRIVIA: Relics of the past still visible today at railway stations" thread below, and guess what they sell?



London & North Western Railway Sign.

London & North Western Railway Sign.​


Enamel on steel.
16 x 18cm
£9.99 each inc p&p.
Minimun order value £10.00
Ref: GWR 28​
 
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