LO Chaos

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OxtedL

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There's also a neutral section south of Willesden Junction on the WLL. Then, after that loud bang, the pantograph gets dropped with a slightly different collection of sound effects. Always gets some mildly concerned looks from the passengers, who have nothing else to do but look at each other in a socially awkward way (longitudinal seating...).

I gather all Electrostars make stupidly loud bangs in neutral sections.
 
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ert47

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The few times I've used the ELL from Penge West, the train has normally been around 2/3 minutes late, before being held outside Sydenham so a Southern service can come down from Crystal Palace.

Just count yourself lucky they got rid of the semi fast trains from Guilford stopping at Norwood Junction, Sydenham and Forest Hill then "fast" to London Bridge.
Most mornings, you'd get caught between Penge and Sydenham for 5 minutes, then have to trail behind a slow train negating the point of a semi-fast

I've read somewhere on the forums that in the peak, the lines between New Cross Gate and Sydenham/Norwood can be single yellow all the way.
 

jon0844

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LO is exactly what I hope suburban services in and out of London could one day be like. TfL running them would be a dream, even if they venture beyond the M25 and into the countryside.

Obviously the interior of the stock might vary depending on distance, but the approach to running the service is far more like the Tube than a normal NR railway. I am sure most users perceive it as being more like a Tube service - especially any users who are users of the Tube in outdoor sections.
 

Skoodle

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The few times I've used the ELL from Penge West, the train has normally been around 2/3 minutes late, before being held outside Sydenham so a Southern service can come down from Crystal Palace.

The East London Trains from West Croydon get held up at West Croydon either waiting for a late running Southern service to cross over in to platform 1, or held at Gloucester Road junction. We also get held up at Norwood Junction waiting for a train to cross over from Platform 3 to go up to Crystal Palace. There is 3 minutes timetabled between Norwood Junction and Anerley, 2 between Anerley and Penge West, and 3 between Penge West and Sydenham. If a Southern train is late coming down from CP, then the following LO train behind it will also be late, then the West Croydon train will also be late, so usually on a weekday morning peak service, the padding means nothing!

LO trains from Crystal Palace get one minute at Dalston Junction, wheras the trains from West Croydon get 3 minutes at Dalston.
 

RJ

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DAM RIGHT!

Chaos, dont know the meaning of the word! Come live in yorkshire the little gets keep knicking the signalling!


It's a typical Londoner attitude - where it's imperative to run all over the place like a blue arsed fly and a 5 minute delay is the end of the world!

Given how frequent everything is in London, I don't see the need for it myself but then that's just me.
 

tsr

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Given how frequent everything is in London, I don't see the need for it myself but then that's just me.

Not everything is frequent - the Hainault loop and some of the furthest extents of the Met (for example) only really run at an average suburban non-Tube line frequency, especially off-peak, although there's normally nothing wrong with that.

The problem in South London (including some parts of the WLL and ELL) and through the TL Core is that the slightest delay of a few minutes can mean a big delay for subsequent services. A decent proportion of Londoners know this and know of the complexity of rail services in South London, and a couple of the issues have already been detailed in this thread. That said, complaints about delays of 2 or 3 minutes to your own service is hardly demonstrative of an acceptable attitude!
 

D1009

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It's a typical Londoner attitude - where it's imperative to run all over the place like a blue arsed fly and a 5 minute delay is the end of the world!

Given how frequent everything is in London, I don't see the need for it myself but then that's just me.

I notice the OP hasn't posted since.
 

ert47

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The problem in South London (including some parts of the WLL and ELL) and through the TL Core is that the slightest delay of a few minutes can mean a big delay for subsequent services. A decent proportion of Londoners know this and know of the complexity of rail services in South London, and a couple of the issues have already been detailed in this thread. That said, complaints about delays of 2 or 3 minutes to your own service is hardly demonstrative of an acceptable attitude!

Not really much of a complaint, but its happened where the 0713 fast train to London Bridge was delayed at Norwood Junction probably due to a late running FCC train so that it arrived at 0718 at the same time as the next fast train to London Bridge was due. It was fun trying to work out which train would go first. :roll:

I am one of those people who will feel a little frustration if I find the next tube train (in a z1-2 station) is more than 5 minutes away - I've found myself on a Waterloo & City line train from Bank once since the next southbound Northern Line was 6 minutes away. :oops:

There is something about travelling commuting in London, you just want to get it done with as soon as or at least keep on moving
 

transmanche

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I am sure most users perceive it as being more like a Tube service - especially any users who are users of the Tube in outdoor sections.
I've noticed that as the temporary signage is replaced, LO stations don't display the National Rail (BR) logo anymore; only the Overground logo (unless of course other services use the station too). So I'm guessing that TfL want passengers to perceive it as something different to NR, something more tube-like.
 

bicbasher

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LO is a NR TOC just like Silverlink was. The North London side still has guards and there are diesels on the Gob line. Nothing tube like to me anyway.

It's a TfL concession operated in a similar way to the DLR with Serco Docklands with TfL taking most of the revenue, although London Overground are members of ATOC in line with the NR TOC's.

My own personal experiences of using LO on the ELL have on the whole been excellent. The only real criticism is the lack of later services in comparison to when LUL operated the shorter line. The final service on the ELL south of New Cross Gate is provided by Southern rather than LO.
 

jon0844

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I've noticed that as the temporary signage is replaced, LO stations don't display the National Rail (BR) logo anymore; only the Overground logo (unless of course other services use the station too). So I'm guessing that TfL want passengers to perceive it as something different to NR, something more tube-like.

The new stations quite clearly show the roundel logo, which I'm sure most people associate with the tube - even though it's also used for taxis, buses, river, DLR etc. In any case, the one thing they almost certainly won't be associated with by Joe Public is the national railway network.

Despite the yellow cabs, the trains look like tube trains too.

I do think it's one of those things that will probably feature in pub quizzes and as a random bit of trivia in future years, as most people won't believe it isn't part of the tube network.
 

rmt-driver

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The new stations quite clearly show the roundel logo, which I'm sure most people associate with the tube - even though it's also used for taxis, buses, river, DLR etc. In any case, the one thing they almost certainly won't be associated with by Joe Public is the national railway network.

Despite the yellow cabs, the trains look like tube trains too.

I do think it's one of those things that will probably feature in pub quizzes and as a random bit of trivia in future years, as most people won't believe it isn't part of the tube network.

I have never seen a tube train as big as a 378!!! Id hate to see it trying to fit in the tube tunnel!!

It may possibly look like the sub surface railway S Class trains
 

jon0844

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You know that. I know that. But a lot of (most?) people won't notice (unless you put them side by side with a tube train). Do people think that sub-surface trains aren't ordinary tube trains? I doubt it.

We clearly know a lot of things that the average passenger doesn't, and they probably don't care. They certainly wouldn't be interested in knowing how LO is actually operated, as long as the signs and route maps match any tube line, and they can use their Oyster card.

About the only thing they might notice is that the service frequency is lower.
 

notadriver

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A couple of things separate Lorol trains from the 'tube' that a passenger might Anyone sitting next to the cab at the front of a Lorol train will be aware of the AWS chimes and radio changeover bleeps and the occasional DSD alarm. There are also door egress handles to which all NR trains have but which the tube doesn't have. Another thing that catches some people out is that on NR trains doors are released and one must open the door pressing the button. Obviously on the tube all doors open and on NR trains there is sometimes the facility to close the individual doors although this is being disabled on 378s.
Also to my knowledge there are no routes on which a tube can have a class 66 hauling 1000 tons behind it.
 

jon0844

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You are giving a lot of credit to the general public!

Fair play, though, I forgot about the doors not opening automatically though. Although wouldn't it make sense to do that on the S Stock, especially when out in the open on a sweltering hot day?
 

D1009

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Also to my knowledge there are no routes on which a tube can have a class 66 hauling 1000 tons behind it.

Actually GBRf 66s are sometimes seen on ballast trains during engineering work on the outer stretches of the District and Met lines.
 

jopsuk

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I have never seen a tube train as big as a 378!!! Id hate to see it trying to fit in the tube tunnel!!

It may possibly look like the sub surface railway S Class trains
assuming that 378s as tall as 377s, they're, as far as I can tell, all of 80mm shorter than A-Stock, and LU stock is fatter...

Where they mifgt trip up is curves, being 20m long
 

OxtedL

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Actually GBRf 66s are sometimes seen on ballast trains during engineering work on the outer stretches of the District and Met lines.

You're still not going to get one following a tube train with passengers on it, I somehow think... :p
 

notadriver

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Oh I forgot - tube trains don't use a pantograph to collect current from overhead wires :)
 

notadriver

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It takes at least 8 months to train up an LO driver - more depending on routes required. The LU course is now 12-14 weeks.
 

Southern

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The only real criticism is the lack of later services in comparison to when LUL operated the shorter line. The final service on the ELL south of New Cross Gate is provided by Southern rather than LO.

Yes, it would be good to see a later service, especially on New Years Eve. I remember coming back from the celebrations last year, assuming the service would run later, to find it had finished.
 

Clip

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A couple of things separate Lorol trains from the 'tube' that a passenger might Anyone sitting next to the cab at the front of a Lorol train will be aware of the AWS chimes and radio changeover bleeps and the occasional DSD alarm. There are also door egress handles to which all NR trains have but which the tube doesn't have. Another thing that catches some people out is that on NR trains doors are released and one must open the door pressing the button. Obviously on the tube all doors open and on NR trains there is sometimes the facility to close the individual doors although this is being disabled on 378s.
.

Another bug bear of mine though this time abotu the passengers who use it. Stand there like bloody lemons expecting the doors to open atuomatically even though its all lit up and buttons are flashing.And these are regular users too. And the doors take ages to get released too.

Actually GBRf 66s are sometimes seen on ballast trains during engineering work on the outer stretches of the District and Met lines.

Not been there for a while but quite often you would see a 66 on the central with a ballast train pottering around West Ruislip - though not sure how far down it ventured
 

jopsuk

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Whilst I'm on a bit about the A and S-Stock being pretty much the same size (if shorter carriages) as the 378 I'm sure I've heard tale of Mark 2s, possibly Gatwick Express stock, being taken around parts of the Circle? And has the 4TC LU set ever been further in than Baker Street?
 
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Yes, it would be good to see a later service, especially on New Years Eve. I remember coming back from the celebrations last year, assuming the service would run later, to find it had finished.

London Overground were running Highbury-West Croydon till around 2am on new years eve
 

313103

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That must be new as it wasn't running on New Year morning 2011.

Well of course it must be new as the line as only been running for two years and this was the second new year it had run, with last trains running much, much later. The company had learned from its first mistake and enhanced the service the next possible time it was able to.

The last train on for New years eve 2012 was the 01.39 from West Croydon and the last train from Highbury & Islington was the 02.20 departure.

Info still extant on TfLs website.
 
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