Local Lockdown in Aberdeen

[Huntergreed]

Nicola Sturgeon just announced a local lockdown in Aberdeen due to an outbreak in a pub which is now resulting in community transmission. Restrictions include:

• People are advised to not travel for further than 5 miles for non-essential reasons
• All indoor and outdoor hospitality (pubs, cafes, restaurants) must close by 5PM and this can be enforced by law (hotels and takeaways can remain open)
• People are no longer allowed to visit people inside or outside of their homes.
• 
  Is this a sustainable and practical way forward (locking down whole cities and industries for around 30-40 cases?)

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you want to pursue an elimination strategy, as she does, yes.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Sounds kneejerk to me and a case of "being seen to be doing something".

 

[Scotrail12]

Sturgeon showing herself to be a total idiot again, locking down due to so few cases. This combined with the SQA debacle will hopefully wake some more people up to her true colours.

 

[philosopher]

I have a feeling there are going to be quite a few of these local lockdown in “insert town / city name“ threads over the next few months.

 

[MikeWM]

Is this a sustainable and practical way forward (locking down whole cities and industries for around 30-40 cases?)

Of course not. At some point we're going to have to realise that either most of our leaders have gone collectively mad, or there is something really alarming and sinister now going on. You can see this on Twitter - people who previously were reporting 'just the facts' are now incredulous at the anti-scientific 'strategy' - in England, Scotland, Ireland, France, Spain.....

Neither option is remotely appealing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So, those people don't want Bozza's reopening strategy, and they don't want Sturgeon's more cautious one.

What do they want?

In my view anyone who criticises a measure without suggesting a viable alternative has no credibility and should simply be ignored.

 

[DB]

If you want to pursue an elimination strategy, as she does, yes.

In that case, this will go on for years or decades, and destroy the economy in the process. Elimination is not a workable strategy.

 

[MikeWM]

So, those people don't want Bozza's reopening strategy, and they don't want Sturgeon's more cautious one.

What do they want?

In my view anyone who criticises a measure without suggesting a viable alternative has no credibility and should simply be ignored.

I've said what *I* would do (in the 'what would you do if you were in charge' thread). Other people have their own ideas.

I would add that 'do nothing' is often a credible and viable alternative, though not one that power-crazy politicians tend to try.

 

[thejuggler]

If only we had a World beating test, track and trace system.

 

[Bantamzen]

Sounds kneejerk to me and a case of "being seen to be doing something".

It is, and sadly as alluded to above could mean the strategy going for years, burning ever greater holes into the economies of the most affected places. And years later the virus will still be around...

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Is this a sustainable and practical way forward (locking down whole cities and industries for around 30-40 cases?)

Yes - as others have said, she is clear that she wants to pursue an elimination strategy and this is the only way that she's going to manage that.

If only we had a World beating test, track and trace system.

Indeed. I am sceptical of the Scottish test and trace protect system, it does seem to be lacking in some places (and Sturgeon has alluded to that in some conferences I've noticed).

 

[adc82140]

So she's making pubs and restaurants close at 5. That won't help anyone. Either leave them open, or close them completely so the owners can furlough staff and claim on business continuity insurance. This will just ruin them.

Oh by the way how many of this cluster are seriously unwell, or even showing symptoms?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes - as others have said, she is clear that she wants to pursue an elimination strategy and this is the only way that she's going to manage that.
Indeed. I am sceptical of the Scottish test and trace protect system, it does seem to be lacking in some places (and Sturgeon has alluded to that in some conferences I've noticed).

This to be fair has happened because said system has failed. If they could track down all the cases, it wouldn't have happened.

So she's making pubs and restaurants close at 5. That won't help anyone. Either leave them open, or close them completely so the owners can furlough staff and claim on business continuity insurance. This will just ruin them.

Sorry, I think you may have misunderstood there. They are to close completely from 5pm tonight then remain closed. They are not just suggesting an early closing time. The reason for doing this rather than doing it immediately is because they don't want to have to sling out people who are already there mid-meal!

 

[Scrotnig]

So she's making pubs and restaurants close at 5. That won't help anyone. Either leave them open, or close them completely so the owners can furlough staff and claim on business continuity insurance. This will just ruin them.

Oh by the way how many of this cluster are seriously unwell, or even showing symptoms?

No they have to close by 5pm today, not 5pm every day. Then they must stay closed until further notice.

 

[adc82140]

No they have to close by 5pm today, not 5pm every day. Then they must stay closed until further notice.

Whoops. I'll try reading it next time

 

[nlogax]

If only we had a World beating test, track and trace system.

Indeed..

 

[Bletchleyite]

FWIW, I bet there were a load of "Mickey Mouses" and "Donald Ducks" on the list in that pub.

Still funny? I don't think it is.

 

[A Challenge]

If only we had a World beating test, track and trace system.

That's England (not that the Scottish version is any better, I haven't paid too much attention to it)

 

[cf111]

I've just cancelled some train tickets to and from Aberdeen which were booked with LNER and the e-vouchers were in my account instantly. Very impressed with that I must say.

 

[WestCoast]

So, those people don't want Bozza's reopening strategy, and they don't want Sturgeon's more cautious one.

What do they want?

In my view anyone who criticises a measure without suggesting a viable alternative has no credibility and should simply be ignored.

If we are talking about 30-40 cases coming from one establishment then it does give credit to concerns around measures in pubs and a lack of distancing between households / appropriate tracking mechanisms. I think with the schools going back shortly in Scotland unlike in other parts of the UK there's a context to why the swift route was chosen here.

 

[haggishunter]

That's England (not that the Scottish version is any better, I haven't paid too much attention to it)

Ultimately the system is only as good as people's honesty, it's in someways easier for sit down restaurants that mainly have reservations, but for cafes and pubs are people giving real and correct information, where premises are allowing people to provide contact details via their own devices (which in someways is better, people not picking up shared pens / pencils or risk of staff miss hearing a number or email address etc).

As an example I ate in the Counting House in Glasgow after coming off a train from Queen Street a few nights ago and there was a one way in and out system, security on the door were ID'ing at least one person in each group going in and checking people were entering a matching name and were supplying a credible phone number (ie something that looked right, obviously verifying each number given would be impractical), but it was a pretty solid effort to make sure people were complying.

 

[Huntergreed]

Interestingly, the lockdown is only for a period of 7 days until review, I would’ve expected it to be 3 weeks as usual

 

[Huntergreed]

Spoken to some of my (young) friends in Aberdeen, they're not mentally doing great with this announcement.

On social media and in general, it seems the older generation are actively blaming the younger generation causing this for 'going out too much' and 'ignoring the rules', when in reality none of the young people I speak to have done anything of the sort.

Can we stop trying to turn this crisis into a national 'blame game' and instead just find a sensible, sustainable and practical way forward which, in my opinion, looks like what Sweden is doing?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Can we stop trying to turn this crisis into a national 'blame game' and instead just find a sensible, sustainable and practical way forward which, in my opinion, looks like what Sweden is doing?

What Sweden is doing requires a high level of compliance and of taking personal measures that aren't required, understanding the ethos of the situation and recognising what is needed of each of us, as well as an appreciation of "the greater good".

No chance.

I bet if Sweden has tracking lists at pubs, none of them have "Musse Pigg" on them.

 

[bramling]

Spoken to some of my (young) friends in Aberdeen, they're not mentally doing great with this announcement.

On social media and in general, it seems the older generation are actively blaming the younger generation causing this for 'going out too much' and 'ignoring the rules', when in reality none of the young people I speak to have done anything of the sort.

Can we stop trying to turn this crisis into a national 'blame game' and instead just find a sensible, sustainable and practical way forward which, in my opinion, looks like what Sweden is doing?

Completely agree about the blame game. Poor leadership has allowed this to fester right through this from start to finish.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Completely agree about the blame game. Poor leadership has allowed this to fester right through this from start to finish.

We can certainly agree with that in terms of England but I think the leadership in Scotland has been superb. I haven't agreed with all the measures but it has all been managed superbly and well-communicated too.

 

[DB]

What Sweden is doing requires a high level of compliance and of taking personal measures that aren't required, understanding the ethos of the situation and recognising what is needed of each of us, as well as an appreciation of "the greater good".

No chance.

Is it any wonder if people in this country are now ignoring the messages given that they change every week, and are generally very badly comunicated?

 

[Trackman]

Interestingly, the lockdown is only for a period of 7 days until review, I would’ve expected it to be 3 weeks as usual

Is this the same in England, meaning 3 weeks until they will review a local lockdown?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is it any wonder if people in this country are now ignoring the messages given that they change every week, and are generally very badly comunicated?

In England it doesn't help, but I don't think you can in any way cast that aspersion at Scotland.