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Local Lockdown in Aberdeen

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DB

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We can certainly agree with that in terms of England but I think the leadership in Scotland has been superb. I haven't agreed with all the measures but it has all been managed superbly and well-communicated too.

She's been better at implementing it, but by aiming for elimination is pursuing an unworkable policy.
 
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WestCoast

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Spoken to some of my (young) friends in Aberdeen, they're not mentally doing great with this announcement.

On social media and in general, it seems the older generation are actively blaming the younger generation causing this for 'going out too much' and 'ignoring the rules', when in reality none of the young people I speak to have done anything of the sort.

Well I don't think it's fair to say it's caused by any one group because I strongly suspect it isn't, but I'm (still!) under 30 and my Instagram feed was full of people meeting in groups over the bank holiday, both indoors and outdoors. That doesn't mean it's even a majority but it is happening. I live near a large park in Glasgow and it was shut down multiple times at the height of lockdown due to large groups of mostly young people coming from all over to meet and have fun, which at one point included a giant conga line (I kid you not!).
 

Huntergreed

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Well I don't think it's fair to say it's caused by any one group because I strongly suspect it isn't, but I'm (still!) under 30 and my Instagram feed was full of people meeting in groups over the bank holiday, both indoors and outdoors. That doesn't mean it's even a majority but it is happening.
I entirely agree that it is happening, but to blame the whole thing on a single group isn't helpful, it's like the people of this country need someone to blame for everything they're unhappy about (which I strongly suspect may be the case).

I live near a large park in Glasgow and it was shut down multiple times at the height of lockdown due to large groups of mostly young people coming from all over to meet and have fun, which at one point included a giant conga line (I kid you not!).
Kelvingrove Park? I've been there a couple of times, and whilst the group I was with observed distancing (albeit at 1m, which we believe is sufficient) and followed the rules as far as we reasonably could, I've seen some pretty crazy things there happening recently!
 

Darandio

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I live near a large park in Glasgow and it was shut down multiple times at the height of lockdown due to large groups of mostly young people coming from all over to meet and have fun, which at one point included a giant conga line (I kid you not!).

I can well imagine it! This is precisely why it grates me to see Sweden constantly regurgitated in every thread and portayed as some sort of panacea. They have a completely different, respectful and largely obedient culture and if it's working for them then great. Expect the same compliance here? No chance.
 

Bletchleyite

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I can well imagine it! This is precisely why it grates me to see Sweden constantly regurgitated in every thread and portayed as some sort of panacea. They have a completely different, respectful and largely obedient culture and if it's working for them then great. Expect the same compliance here? No chance.

Exactly. Some are interpreting Sweden as being Bozza's original "herd immunity" plan and it's nothing of the sort.
 

WestCoast

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Kelvingrove Park? I've been there a couple of times, and whilst the group I was with observed distancing (albeit at 1m, which we believe is sufficient) and followed the rules as far as we reasonably could, I've seen some pretty crazy things there happening recently!

Indeed, that's the one. It's been fine when the weather is dull but when it was sunny hosted an illegal rave of sorts and all sorts of debauchery, including the now locally infamous conga. Police Scotland now monitor it very closely, sometimes with the helicopter from overhead.
 

Bantamzen

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I can well imagine it! This is precisely why it grates me to see Sweden constantly regurgitated in every thread and portayed as some sort of panacea. They have a completely different, respectful and largely obedient culture and if it's working for them then great. Expect the same compliance here? No chance.

Perhaps the Swedish (and others for that matter) government treat their population like adults rather than children that they did not trust to keep 1m apart & so they implemented 2m? Apart from a first few briefings, the government has been pretty poor, focusing too much on catchy slogans and pot banging. I've previously some of the Swiss government's publications on the pandemic, and there was none of this "Stay home! Or you will mass murder millions! And you'll probably bankrupt the NHS!" type sloganing, just here are are plans, here's why, here's are aim, would you mind putting up with this whilst we sort it out.

If you are going to treat an entire population like five year olds, expect some to push back and behave that way. Respect is not given, it is earned.
 

Bletchleyite

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Perhaps the Swedish (and others for that matter) government treat their population like adults rather than children that they did not trust to keep 1m apart & so they implemented 2m? Apart from a first few briefings, the government has been pretty poor, focusing too much on catchy slogans and pot banging. I've previously some of the Swiss government's publications on the pandemic, and there was none of this "Stay home! Or you will mass murder millions! And you'll probably bankrupt the NHS!" type sloganing, just here are are plans, here's why, here's are aim, would you mind putting up with this whilst we sort it out.

If you are going to treat an entire population like five year olds, expect some to push back and behave that way. Respect is not given, it is earned.

The problem is that demonstrably a very significant proportion of the population is unable to behave other than like a five year old.
 

DB

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The problem is that demonstrably a very significant proportion of the population is unable to behave other than like a five year old.

That's demonstrably not true. In the beginning of this situation most people did actually obey the stay at home rule. Since then the mixed messaging, inconsistency and lack of clear explanations for pretty much everything they've done has had the same effect as the constant "safety" announcements on stations - people just switch off and ignore it.
 

Red Onion

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That's England (not that the Scottish version is any better, I haven't paid too much attention to it)

By all accounts, the ”trace and protect” system has failed or simply not bothered to contact the majority of pubs that were named on the published list of affected venues. The same list that has omitted venues, been vague with venues (ie saying ”brewdog” when there are three brewdogs) and even incorrectly naming venues.

The whole system is farcical and I see why Nicola tried avoiding questions on its effectiveness.
 

Andyh82

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Will the media run stories live from closed pubs in Aberdeen that are fearing for their livelihoods, or question why you can't go to the pub but can still do X & Y, like they would if it was in England, or just report it factually and move on?
 

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I've said what *I* would do (in the 'what would you do if you were in charge' thread). Other people have their own ideas.

I would add that 'do nothing' is often a credible and viable alternative, though not one that power-crazy politicians tend to try.
Indeed, I think it was Apollo Flight Director Gene Kranz who said "If you don't know what to do, do nothing"
 
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Several of the bars on the list identified by the tracers are popular with riggers enjoying their last pint before going offshore or their first pint after coming back. Wonder what effect it would have on the oil and gas industry if it spread through an entire crew?
 

DB

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Several of the bars on the list identified by the tracers are popular with riggers enjoying their last pint before going offshore or their first pint after coming back. Wonder what effect it would have on the oil and gas industry if it spread through an entire crew?

Possibly not a lot - most of those working on rigs will be younger or middle aged blokes in reasonable health, and once they are on a rig they are by definition isolated!
 

yorkie

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I can well imagine it! This is precisely why it grates me to see Sweden constantly regurgitated in every thread and portayed as some sort of panacea. They have a completely different, respectful and largely obedient culture and if it's working for them then great. Expect the same compliance here? No chance.
Not that argument again; it has been debunked so many times before now. I refer you to previous posts.

The track and trace issue has a separate thread too.

Does anyone have anything to discuss about the local lockdown?
 

A Challenge

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Why is Nicola Sturgeon not getting the same bad press for short notice restrictions as Boris got for introducing the lockdown at such short notice (during the day for late afternoon is in my opinion worse than evening to come in overnight)?
 

SteveM70

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I was booked to go to Aberdeen a week on Saturday for a couple of days. ScotRail have already processed my refund and LNER have approved it pending me returning the ticket, as I’d already collected from the station. Luckily I paid a couple of quid extra for a cancel up to the day before rate at the hotel.

Where shall I go instead, that’s the question
 

RomeoCharlie71

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Why is Nicola Sturgeon not getting the same bad press for short notice restrictions as Boris got for introducing the lockdown at such short notice (during the day for late afternoon is in my opinion worse than evening to come in overnight)?
Probably because it was announced at a press conference and not over Twitter?
 

Bletchleyite

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Why is Nicola Sturgeon not getting the same bad press for short notice restrictions as Boris got for introducing the lockdown at such short notice (during the day for late afternoon is in my opinion worse than evening to come in overnight)?

Because she isn't botching up the whole thing in the way Boris is?

Because she has clearly and succinctly communicated the measures and what to do if you're caught up in various aspects of them?
 

Journeyman

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Because she isn't botching up the whole thing in the way Boris is?

Because she has clearly and succinctly communicated the measures and what to do if you're caught up in various aspects of them?

Nope. It's because if you're a nationalist in Scotland, you'll defend Sturgeon to the hilt, even when she messes up badly (which has been known to happen).
 

Andyh82

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Because she isn't botching up the whole thing in the way Boris is?

Because she has clearly and succinctly communicated the measures and what to do if you're caught up in various aspects of them?
Even so, where are the vox pops from landlords complaining that they’ve just had a delivery of a weeks worth of beer, and they are now likely to go out of business?

I know some say the UK government gets an easy ride from the media (current discussion in the media thread) but the devolved governments certainly do. Nothing is questioned, and the only agenda tends to be why isn’t England doing the same.
 

Red Onion

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The very, and I stress very, unconfirmed rumours that are flying about here suggest this was the result of one offshore worker who was turned away from his chopper flight due to a high temperature, went straight to a pub to await a test then after being tested, decided not to wait for results and has been to several places including a pub crawl. He had been told on more than one occasion to self isolate and chose to ignore this instruction.

As I say, these are no more than unconfirmed rumours but if true it is utterly criminal to have acted in such a way. Be interesting to see what comes of this.
 

Smidster

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Why is Nicola Sturgeon not getting the same bad press for short notice restrictions as Boris got for introducing the lockdown at such short notice (during the day for late afternoon is in my opinion worse than evening to come in overnight)?

Because she is being consistent, is communicating effectively and the necessary information is available immediately.

It isn't the speed of the restrictions that is the problem for Johnson but the execution - announcing a major extension to restrictions on Twitter with no public event or opportunity for scrutiny and then several days before actually telling people what the ruless are.
 

Bletchleyite

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Because she is being consistent, is communicating effectively and the necessary information is available immediately.

It isn't the speed of the restrictions that is the problem for Johnson but the execution - announcing a major extension to restrictions on Twitter with no public event or opportunity for scrutiny and then several days before actually telling people what the ruless are.

Exactly.

You can argue that her measures are excessive, but you can't argue with the way she is presenting things - it's pretty much 100%.
 

Crossover

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The very, and I stress very, unconfirmed rumours that are flying about here suggest this was the result of one offshore worker who was turned away from his chopper flight due to a high temperature, went straight to a pub to await a test then after being tested, decided not to wait for results and has been to several places including a pub crawl. He had been told on more than one occasion to self isolate and chose to ignore this instruction.

As I say, these are no more than unconfirmed rumours but if true it is utterly criminal to have acted in such a way. Be interesting to see what comes of this.

Slightly off topic (not Scotland) but taking the same point, there was a pub in West Yorkshire which had a confirmed positive case the day after they opened post-lockdown. I have heard (third hand) that it was someone who went to the pub whilst awaiting the result of a test (not sure if symptomatic or not). In a similar vein to your point, if it is the case, it is just reckless behaviour
 

Bletchleyite

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Slightly off topic (not Scotland) but taking the same point, there was a pub in West Yorkshire which had a confirmed positive case the day after they opened post-lockdown. I have heard (third hand) that it was someone who went to the pub whilst awaiting the result of a test (not sure if symptomatic or not). In a similar vein to your point, if it is the case, it is just reckless behaviour

If you've had a test you clearly suspect you have the virus. Therefore you need to go home and isolate until the result. I'm sure the usual ones will shout, but I would see this worthy of a very hefty penalty if you are found not to have done.

Perhaps the authorities should do some checking on this - would be quite easy, as they have the details from the test bookings.
 

A Challenge

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Exactly.

You can argue that her measures are excessive, but you can't argue with the way she is presenting things - it's pretty much 100%.
I asked because some of the criticisms were because Matt Hancock had announced it that late in the evening just before Eid, which although there isn't Eid this time it is still incredibly short notice.
 

Huntergreed

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I asked because some of the criticisms were because Matt Hancock had announced it that late in the evening just before Eid, which although there isn't Eid this time it is still incredibly short notice.
To be fair to her, to announce something is necessary then wait for a few days seems a little pointless, if it's needed it must be needed now (in her eyes) so I can totally understand the short notice.

Can't fault her messaging at all in terms of consistency and delivery style during the whole pandemic.
 

Scrotnig

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If you've had a test you clearly suspect you have the virus. Therefore you need to go home and isolate until the result. I'm sure the usual ones will shout, but I would see this worthy of a very hefty penalty if you are found not to have done.
No on this one I'm in full agreement. If you think you have the virus, you should be at home. If your test is then negative, happy days. However personally if it were me I'd wait a couple more days then have a second test. Peace of mind and all that.
 
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