• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Lochmaben a layout in 7mm 31.5 gauge

Status
Not open for further replies.

HSP 2

Member
Joined
4 Dec 2019
Messages
640
Location
11B
This layout has been in our heads for about 4 or more years, we have now made a start on the thing.
The station is on the line between Dumfries and Lockerbie, but it was closed in about 1966, a bit of a problem as we want to model it in the 1980
The yellow line is what we would like to model, this would take approx. 18'. But as the layout is going to about 18' 6" in diameter we cant do that.
Lochmaben Copy (2) of Map 3.png

The track is all going to be built to 31.5mm gauge.

If anyone can help with any phots please post onto this thread.

Due to the lock down it has taken us a bit longer to get started on this project. The first job was to make this, the template for all of the baseboards, using a bit of maths and some old school boy (girl) logic we ended up with this. Why did we spend time making this? You may well ask.
1627372673614.png

This is the reason. All twelve of the baseboard tops (or bottoms) cut out. Someone wants to put wires on this already (so we may have to make some more front boards to fit the fiddle yard boards) . What's up with blue diesels? Apart from it's not steam and in the 1960s!!!


I'm glad that it's Charles that's in the middle of the layout and not me to give some idea of size . Some parts for some of our other layout can be seen in this photo, along with some old git trying not to be in the photo.
1627372963753.png

The start of the first drop board (why start with something simple) this is just the first of three, all of the rest should be simple? More bits of layouts in the background.

The above photo is showing what we have started as standard the leg sockets, we have four of them on all of our baseboards but only use two of them on most boards (apart from the first board). This board is odd in that it can have two lengths of leg , the normal length at the R/H side or the short ones at the L/H side. A lot of this is due to how we can set up at exhibitions. We did learn a long time back .

The first BB taking shape, this end will join onto the fiddle yard. We normally use clamps to join the BBs together but we're trying tee nuts and bolts on this layout (less to carry about).
1627373080091.png

1627373149146.png

No the mice have not got to the BBs the holes are for the kettle connectors (DDC power feeds J & K) they can also be used for the 240v ring main.
The same board from the other end, just two more of these to do and then it's onto mass production of the nine main boards.
1627373247729.png
1627373361624.png
1627373409298.png
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Peter C

Established Member
Joined
13 Oct 2018
Messages
4,514
Location
GWR land
This all looks interesting - thanks for sharing. I'm not sure if I've ever seen a circular layout (I mean that in terms of the boards being completely circular, not in terms of a round-and-round layout) before, so this is going to be one to follow.
A quick search online says that 31.5mm gauge is pretty much O gauge - I don't think we've had many O gauge layouts on this forum before!

-Peter

EDIT: Just noticed the thread title says it's 7mm gauge anyway - no need for my detective skills ;)
 

HSP 2

Member
Joined
4 Dec 2019
Messages
640
Location
11B
EDIT: Just noticed the thread title says it's 7mm gauge anyway - no need for my detective skills ;)
Peter.

It's 7mm scale and 31.5 gauge. As it's group layout we wanted to be able to run RTR and kit built stock, but we also wanted more accurate looking point work mostly around the vee and the checkrails. You will see more as the layout progresses.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Peter C

Established Member
Joined
13 Oct 2018
Messages
4,514
Location
GWR land
Peter.

It's 7mm scale and 31.5 gauge. As it's group layout we wanted to be able to run RTR and kit built stock, but we also wanted more accurate looking point work mostly around the vee and the checkrails. You will see more as the layout progresses.
Sounds interesting. Being able to run RTR and kit-built stuff should allow for fun operations!

-Peter
 

Huntergreed

Established Member
Associate Staff
Events Co-ordinator
Joined
16 Jan 2016
Messages
3,019
Location
Dumfries
Fantastic! Dumfries resident and travelled through Lochmaben many times, so very much looking forward to seeing this progress!
 

Iskra

Established Member
Joined
11 Jun 2014
Messages
7,787
Location
West Riding
This sounds a most interest layout design and area, please keep us updated!
 

Cowley

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
15 Apr 2016
Messages
15,687
Location
Devon
This looks really interesting and I’ll be following the progress closely. Those baseboards look great by the way.
I like the fact that you’re striving to go a bit further than is the easy option with the trackwork etc. Good stuff.
 

HSP 2

Member
Joined
4 Dec 2019
Messages
640
Location
11B
Hello all,

For anyone that has forgot BBs are base boards.

More photos of the BB's. The second of the drop boards in place we still have to put the pattern makers dowels in place as the bolts are only used for bolting the boards together.
1631432682646.png
The track bed is wide enough for two tracks, as the head shunt should go on for some length. But to have done that we would have not been able to, A) be able to put it up in the club rooms, and B) it would not fit in the van. As it is we may have to take a car with us to get the stock in and the other two operators. The van normal takes 5 but we're having to take a row of seats out.
1631457786655.png
1631457955760.png
At this end of the BB I did make a foo pare in that I forgot to move the bolt holes up by 1/4" not that much of a problem but it's one of them things that can happen when your making your BBs upside down.

1631458108930.png
1631458194680.png

Well tonight we got the last of the three drop boards finished and bolted to the other two. The paper that you can see on this end of the BB is for one of the points in to the station yard. When we start laying track this point will be at the far end of these boards.
1631458708199.png
The inside circumference of each board is approx. 42" and the outside circumference is approx. 58". So using a bit more maths we get the following sizes, inside Dia. 13.369', and the outside Dia. 18.462' Dia..
1631458903032.png
1631459388504.png
I may get a talking to on Monday night by these two, as they don't like been photo'd.

The next job is to mass produce the normal boards, that could take a few club nights to do and I'm sure that you wont want to see nine BB that are all the same being made.

Stay safe,
 

HSP 2

Member
Joined
4 Dec 2019
Messages
640
Location
11B
the mad man's back, well we got up to the club last some of us at least (due to the rule of six). So what did we do, the first thing was to have a bit of a clean up (how is it that the club has been closed since before Christmas but boxes turn up in the middle of the floor?). So we then erected the full layout for the first time,
1631545667137.png
Rick is working on the laser level tripod, Kev and me had a go at getting a sort of level layout using a spirit level. The floor is any thing but flat due to all of the old internal walls having been removed.

1631545780519.png
From the other side of the layout. This is going to be the head shunt end of the layout on the right leading on to the station. on the left is going to be the single line entrance to the fiddle yard.
1631545841466.png
1631545923850.png

Ian then had a play with the tripod to try and get a panorama shot or two of the layout, so we now have a straight layout and a very odd shaped clubroom. It's an odd shape to start with but it looks odder now.

Well the rue of six is still with us but we are trying to get on with the layout. Over the last couple of weeks Ian has knocked out a new Templot plan for the front of the layout, this was due to finding out that we had a point tie bar over a large cross beam. He also did some other work on parts that we weren't too keen on.
The first job was to get some of the 3mm thick cork tiles down for the track bed (I thought that watching paint dry was a boring sport, but watching glue dry beats it hands down).
The next club night Kev and me started getting some of the Templot plans down. Then Kev went onto the next station board so I decided to start gluing sleeper down, just to see how it would look.
The next club night was much the same, more cork, more Templot and more sleepers. We now reckon that we have the way to do it!
So a photo showing the start of the first station board from the fiddle yard end, this joint will be covered by a road over bridge, a handy way to hide the way we are going to fix the rails at this end.
1631546223051.png

The next photo is just showing the next station board going on to the fiddle yard. With the Templot plans just laid in place. While all of this has been going on Rick has been working on the Templot plans for the fiddle yard, at the other end.
Go on which cup is mine?
1631546342678.png

I would like to thank Martin Wynne for Templot and its free use for all us track modelers.

More to follow soon.
 

Peter C

Established Member
Joined
13 Oct 2018
Messages
4,514
Location
GWR land
Looks interesting - very nice to see the group of you working on it. Baseboard building is a simple thing really (although that doesn't mean your work is worth any less!), but never having done it like that, I find it amazing.

-Peter
 

HSP 2

Member
Joined
4 Dec 2019
Messages
640
Location
11B
Looks interesting - very nice to see the group of you working on it. Baseboard building is a simple thing really (although that doesn't mean your work is worth any less!), but never having done it like that, I find it amazing.

-Peter
Peter,

would you please explain by what I have put in bold.

TIA
 

HSP 2

Member
Joined
4 Dec 2019
Messages
640
Location
11B
Most of the boards are made from 9mm ply, apart from the ends that are 12mm ply. A lot of the strength comes from the solid base or top, We may look at adding some diagonal cross members to stop the boards racking. The wood that you can see is just to add more gluing area to the joints, in the photo of the BB that's upside down you can see a box with a square hole this is for one of the legs to fit in.
 

Peter C

Established Member
Joined
13 Oct 2018
Messages
4,514
Location
GWR land
Most of the boards are made from 9mm ply, apart from the ends that are 12mm ply. A lot of the strength comes from the solid base or top, We may look at adding some diagonal cross members to stop the boards racking. The wood that you can see is just to add more gluing area to the joints, in the photo of the BB that's upside down you can see a box with a square hole this is for one of the legs to fit in.
Ah OK. I've always wondered why so many layouts seem to spend a lot of time at the bare-baseboard stage, but I suppose it's better to spend a while making things properly once than making things quickly and then fixing them for months or years after!

-Peter
 

HSP 2

Member
Joined
4 Dec 2019
Messages
640
Location
11B
It's a private layout being built by about five of us, but it will be used as an exhibition layout with an exhibition life of 15 - 20 years depending on how many of us are still alive.

A fiddle yard that was built over 25 years ago is still in use for its fourth layout front.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

HSP 2

Member
Joined
4 Dec 2019
Messages
640
Location
11B
Kev and me went up to the club last night (not a normal club night) , this was where we had got up to on Wednesday night when we called it a day (OK a night).
BB 18A.jpgBB 18.JPG

Kev got up to about where the pillar drill and the chop saw are with the cork and the Templot plans. So I carried on with the sleepers until near the first point on the cross over on the inside track (that's about where the blue container is). Then it was cutting point-work sleepers to length and getting them into place and laying more plain track sleepers.

Keep safe
and lets hope that is a light at the end of the tunnel and not another train on a single line.
 

HSP 2

Member
Joined
4 Dec 2019
Messages
640
Location
11B
Another Monday night another club night, the down side to last night was we had to drop Lochmaben so that we could put Swiss Pass up to check it and take some photos of it for Warley.

But before we dropped Lochmaben I got a couple of photos to show how far we have got with the sleeper laying.

Looking from the station end to the country end, IIRC the platform ends at the B.B.J.
BB 22.JPG

Looking at the station from the country end of the layout, this also shows the point for the yard, on the map that I have downloaded from the web the yard had about five or six roads, we could not have fitted them all in with the best will in the world. So thank god for the rationalisation of the 70s and 80s. The road nearest the platform also had a small goods shed on it that I have not found any photos for so I'm glad for the 70s and 80s for that.
BB 24.JPG

Keep safe,
the light at the end of the tunnel just got a bit smaller, but has not gone out.
 

HSP 2

Member
Joined
4 Dec 2019
Messages
640
Location
11B
The light at the end of the tunnel has got a good bit bigger.
We had our first exhibition in 2 years and it seemed to be well received by the public.
Swiss Pass has been taken down while Ian works on the track circuits for the signals, Kev is working on the underside of the fiddle yard boards to fit the three DCC kit that are used on Bolden Junction and Swiss Pass (if you want to see a photo let me know).

Back to Lochmaben, we have put 5 base boards up, two for the front (my department) and three for the fiddle yard (Ricks department). After the first night I had got to this far with most of the crossover sleepers in place and the main line sleepers in place until the end of the second board.
BB 25 - Copy.JPG


From the end of the second board. This is the first of the scenic drop boards, the second track that you can see on the plot is the yard head shunt.
BB 26 - Copy.JPG

This was how far Rick had got at the end of the first night. But to be fair he was starting with bare base boards and he can't glue his plot down, as it could look a bit naff when we get it finished. At the far end is the first/last drop board for the front.
BB27 - Copy.JPG

The end of the second night and this was the result (not a lot) or it looks not a lot but all of the sleepers had to be cut to length for the points .
BB28 - Copy.JPG

The same from the country end. Along with two people not wanting to be in the photo.
BB 30 - Copy.JPG

Rick may have started off as the tortoise but he looks to be turning into the hare, looking at the speed he is getting the copper clad down.
BB 31 - Copy.JPG

This sort of thing will slow him down, a nice curved double slip along with the curved three way points and I think a four way as well.
BB 32 - Copy.JPG

This has now got the two threads up to date and both running at the same speed.

Keep safe all,
 

Iskra

Established Member
Joined
11 Jun 2014
Messages
7,787
Location
West Riding
Very good! It's coming on nicely :)

Could you share the pictures of Swiss Pass please?
 

HSP 2

Member
Joined
4 Dec 2019
Messages
640
Location
11B
I have done a bit of modelling for Lochmaben, not a lot but it's a start. These are from Shapeways of a G.E.R. type (I think) they're about as close to the C.R. type that we should have.
IMG_1862.JPG
IMG_1865.JPG

As these will have been in place for a good few years I reckoned that the sleepers could be a bit on the knackerd side of good.
IMG_1867.JPG

Iskra I'll post some photos as soon as I get some off Ian, in the meantime you can see Swiss Pass standing up in the background of a couple of the last set of photos. A bit of information about Swiss Pass it's about 30' long by about 12' wide running Swiss main line stock on the bottom line and the branch. Then we have a Swiss meter gauge line running around the top of the layout (about 4'6" from the floor). This has its own fiddly yard running the length of the layout, along with three turn back sidings at each end.
Keep safe.

Sorry for the delay in posting the photos of Swiss Pass. But here we go with them. Please don't ask me the classes of the trains I only did some of the rock work along with some help.
IMG_2884.JPG

IMG_2910.JPG

IMG_3016.JPG

The photo bellow is of one of the Metre gauge trains (that I call a Crocodile). It's a baby Croc.
IMG_3046.JPG

IMG_3052.JPG

Hope that you like them.

This weeks update ,
I've got the last bit of the head shunt sleepers down to the BBJ, for this I'm using scale 9' sleeper as I don't think that they would have been replaced.
BB 33 - Copy (2).JPG

Filling in the gaps some of this will be with 9' or 8'6" sleepers'.
BB 34 - Copy.JPG

A couple of photos showing things in close up and from the other end.
BB 35 - Copy.JPG

BB 37 - Copy.JPG

Rick has got the first two yards of rail soldered down in the fiddly yard, this is a big starting point for all of us involved in this project as up to now I had been the only one who had worked in O gauge before this.
BB 38 - Copy.JPG

A closer view of the work.
BB 39 - Copy.JPG

I did miss the Monday night meeting and when got there on Wednesday night this is what he had done. Looks like I'm going to have to get faster at laying sleepers (or beat up Rick and brake his fingers).
BB 40 - Copy.JPG

Keep safe all.
 
Last edited:

Iskra

Established Member
Joined
11 Jun 2014
Messages
7,787
Location
West Riding
Wow, Swiss Pass does look stunning. I like the trains running on 3 levels and the double decker rolling stock :) The rock work looks great too!
 

HSP 2

Member
Joined
4 Dec 2019
Messages
640
Location
11B
Work is progressing well in the track laying department, so our minds are moving ahead to the signals. In my collection of signal box leaver frame drawing I have one for Haverthwaite that has a very similar to Lochmaben. The line that goes to Lakeside is two single lines the one with the sidings coming off it is a long head shunt going to the iron works, now for the questions.
Haverthwaite signal box dia 2.JPG

Signal 2 outer home , signal 3 inner home protecting the point 8, not a problem with these. Number 3 is a bit odd in that its in the tunnel.

Now to the question, signal 5 is a shunting peg showing its face in the Greenodd direction. Is it to allow wrong line running through the platform with the signal box on it up to point 11 and on to the iron works. As it would not involve a cross over points 10. or something else?

The problem that I can see is if the goods train was going on to Lakeside after going past signal 15 there is no signal to allow it to proceed so it would have to be with the token and a green flag from the box.

The drawing is a bit old as its on a lint type of gloss paper so I'm guessing about the 1910 - 1930, it's not like any of the L.M.S. ones that I have that are dated.

Thanks for any help
 

Gloster

Established Member
Joined
4 Sep 2020
Messages
8,289
Location
Up the creek
I would guess that the disc is solely to authorise a movement across points 8 to the line closest to the signal box. It is slightly odd that there is nothing protecting points 10 and 11, but many signalling layouts were often originally fairly simple and took a while to be improved. It is possible that instead of using a flag from the signalman trains to Lakeside reversed into the section to Greenodd and then ran through the Lakeside bound platform normally. (At least in theory: what happened far from head office didn’t always get to head office’s ears.) I will have a look through my Cumbrian books tomorrow: I think they are in the pile of stuff in the hall waiting to be sorted.
 

HSP 2

Member
Joined
4 Dec 2019
Messages
640
Location
11B
Thanks for your reply, points 10 would normal be used in in the facing direction from Lakeside and in the trailing direction from Greenodd. Anything that happened after point 11 was in the yard and not for passenger use. Point 11 also acted as the trap point for the yard.

A bit more of a follow up. As I finished the last post with Ricks work I only think that it's correct to start with it. It may not look much in the photo but this is a quite important part in the layouts making, The first two boards that will have track laid on them between the fiddle yard and the front section . we may have to (will have to) adjust the sleeper / track height between the two boards, not that a big a deal.
BB 42 - Copy.JPG

The first train? To run on the layout went to Rick with these two wagons (and why not) he got the first track down.
Has anyone got these wagons as there is a lot of play between the end of the axles and the bearings, has anyone had any problems?
BB 47 - Copy.JPG

I've been looking at the point vees for the front of the layout and this photo is showing the first "fit" the lengths of the rail will need to be cut back a bit but that is better than having to extend them.
BB 41 - Copy.JPG

Some more sleepers down. I'm getting fed up of these I'm wanting to gets some chairs and rail in place. But you have to have the base in place first.
BB 43 - Copy.JPG

BB 44 - Copy.JPG

The point vees for the front, I may bin some of them as I'm not too keen on them?
This also shows how I like to tie them together, using 1 X 3mm brass strip.
BB 46.JPG

My nice clean and tidy corner (not) this is just showing all of sleepers in place from the other end. The roughly curved bit of ply is an offcut that I use to help weight the sleepers down with.
BB 48 - Copy.JPG

BB 49 - Copy.JPG

Showing the roughly curved bit of ply in use with some bottles filled with water (not vodka).
BB 50 - Copy.JPG

More to follow soon,

As an up date I was going to make the point vees like this and cut and shunt chairs to make something like.
BB 45.JPG

But when I was going through the box of chairs I found these crossing nose chair casting that Ian had bought at Telford about 3 or 4 years ago so I had a look to see what they were like, ended up getting three more of them. I'll still have to chop some chairs about but that's how point making goes.
BB 45 d.JPG

The cross over and the point sleepers in the yard, just a few sleeper to lay on the L/H siding to get to the BBJ.
bb 51 - Copy.JPG

From the same view point with the third base board in place, to see what the track would look like I made a yard length up so I could show the lads, its not going to waste and is in place in the yard.
BB 53 - Copy.JPG

From the other end, this is going to be the joint with the fiddle yard. The two yard lines will both stop short but the inner one will be shorter than the outer one.
BB 54 - Copy.JPG

Must have forgot to take any photos of the yard with all its sleepers down.
So back onto the main line (outside) and head shunt. One full base board for the head shunt and about half a board for the main line. The head shunt is at its full length on the board nearest us, just the buffer stops to add, I don't want to fit these until we have got the end boards made. These are used when we pack the layout up for shows and storage.
bb 55 - Copy.JPG

When we dropped one of the base boards (BBs from now on) we had a look at how we are going the fix the rails down at the BBJs brass screws at or near to the BBJs, if we cannot cover them with a chair we may look at cutting the sides of the screw heads down to the width of the rail.
bb 56 - Copy.JPG

The fiddle yard joint to the main line going in place, the main line will get some of its chairs in place before the rails are split. The tracks that you can see behind the soldering iron are just for more stock storage.
bb 52 - Copy.JPG

Getting some of the first fixes in place on the fiddle yard point work using the plan lines to set the vees, one of the problems with the fiddle yard point work is we have a lot of different vee angles that we have no jigs for so some of them will have to be built on site. At the bottom of this photo you can see how we are dealing with BBJs in the fiddle yard two copper clad strips laid just inboard of the BBJ. when the trackwork is finished on the BB the Templot plan will be removed and the end sleepers Epoxied and pined down.
bb 57 - Copy.JPG

This photo is to just show how much track we are aiming for in the fiddle yard after the point work.
bb 58 - Copy.JPG

More to follow ( if we are still allowed to meet up).
 

Attachments

  • BB 45.JPG
    BB 45.JPG
    2.9 MB · Views: 1
Last edited:

Cowley

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
15 Apr 2016
Messages
15,687
Location
Devon
Can’t help with the wagons I’m afraid but that trackwork looks incredible. Great work.
 

HSP 2

Member
Joined
4 Dec 2019
Messages
640
Location
11B
Hello all,

On Monday night we had a bit of a mile stone in the progress of Lochmaben, but more on that latter.

Rick is progressing well with the fiddle yard track and copper clads.
bb 59 - Copy.JPG

When you look at this photo I think that he is doing it right in laying the stock rails and working in the point vees from them. The curved double slip looks like it will be fun!!
bb 60 - Copy.JPG

I'm not that sure what he's up to here apart from checking out some point vees.
bb 61 - Copy.JPG

No Templot on this bit of the yard so it's going to be fun getting the track centres in the correct place, but the boy will be able to manage it I'm sure.
bb 62 - Copy.JPG

This was my starting point at the beginning of the night, not a lot of sleepers to get down.
bb 63 - Copy.JPG

At the end of the night I had all of the sleeper glued down on the front of the layout (that was the mile stone), you can also see a yard of rail with most of its chairs threaded on it. I'm now waiting for some parts from C & L so I can start on track laying.
What's Rick doing around my side get away go and play with your fiddle yard.
bb 64 - Copy.JPG

Some of us from the club had a run out to Wakefield to go and see Heaton Lodge junction the layout but we also had a run over the real one as well. If any one of you gets the chance to get to see it GO. The scenery is very good and to a constant standard along the whole of the layout. The owner of the layout had had some problems with some of the trains. but I think that this photo may show the size when you need these.
IMG_3997.JPG

Keep safe and if I don't post before have a good Christmas,
 

Cowley

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
15 Apr 2016
Messages
15,687
Location
Devon
It’s shaping up to be proper work of art this is.
 

HSP 2

Member
Joined
4 Dec 2019
Messages
640
Location
11B
Hello all,

all of the best for the new year (it's a bit [lot] late ),

A bit of an update on Lochmaben for you, this should be the last on laying sleepers (who said thanks for that at the back of the class?).
The last or first scenic board going onto the fiddle yard (station end), the track that is laid was a test piece to see how it would all look, but it looks like that I'm going to have a bit of work to do to get the track to flow on to the yard track.
BB 65 - Copy.JPG


The first of the Templot plans for the station fiddle yard in place. With most if not all of it's copper clad sleepers in place. Not sure about the fellow he just got beamed down from somewhere, it happens in our club!
BB 66 - Copy.JPG


The next board with the Templot plans in place (thanks for them Martin). A view from both ends.
BB 67 - Copy.JPG
BB 68 - Copy.JPG


We have now hit some important points on the layout these are the last of the copper clads to go down, and in one of the next photos a big one.
BB 69 - Copy.JPG


and from the other end.
BB 70 - Copy.JPG



All of the copper clads in place in the fiddle yard, this is one of the milestones of the layout, these were the last of the main sleepers to go down.
BB 72 - Copy.JPG


Rick, hit the first of the big mileposts' with these, the start of two points. He has a lot of them to do!
PS. he didn't want me to take a photo of them.
BB 71 - Copy.JPG

More to follow soon.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top