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Locomotive Services Limited Railtour Programme 2022

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47827

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I didn't think 87s were unreliable?

They weren't in the main, but as it got closer to the end that changed as they were left to decline somewhat in the final few years. Between 1998 and 2003 reliability slid but 86s and 90s got a lot out too as it was a universal issue.

I preferred having one home over an 86 and to a lesser extent over a 90.
 
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hexagon789

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They weren't in the main, but as it got closer to the end that changed as they were left to decline somewhat in the final few years. Between 1998 and 2003 reliability slid but 86s and 90s got a lot out too as it was a universal issue.

I preferred having one home over an 86 and to a lesser extent over a 90.
Oh well towards the end I can understand, that happens with pretty much every fleet that is being replaced by a new train. Maintenance is cut on the old fleet back to the minimum necessary to run.

It was my understanding that 87s were more reliable than 90s for instance.
 

47827

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Oh well towards the end I can understand, that happens with pretty much every fleet that is being replaced by a new train. Maintenance is cut on the old fleet back to the minimum necessary to run.

It was my understanding that 87s were more reliable than 90s for instance.

87s seemed a bit better than 86s but can't recall whether 90s failed much more. I've heard various stories.

Worth noting that some of the failures where of the push pull system or DVT too so that made it seem worse at times.

As a whole 87s rarely failed when I was already on board the train but did chase the leftovers afterward or enjoy a few diesels going forward off a drag or the Holyhead line too as a result. I wouldn't criticise them at all as a whole even if pan down with a sulzer type 4 was the most fun mode of having one in the consist, pre-planned or otherwise.
 

Iskra

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Hi all,

Does anyone know what's happened to the class 87, showing nothing since Beattock at 16:52?

Thanks!
Hi, it’s an issue with RTT left Preston about 5L. Good tour in the end and I managed to do everything I had planned in Glasgow still even with the delay. Looking forward to the Ayrliner now :)

 

GG1960

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Hi, it’s an issue with RTT left Preston about 5L. Good tour in the end and I managed to do everything I had planned in Glasgow still even with the delay. Looking forward to the Ayrliner now :)

Thanks Iskra, glad you had a good day out considering!
 

Strathclyder

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Was planning to go out and try and snag the inbound working at Wishaw, but a messed up sleeping pattern precluded that from happening. Seems I missed out on something special as a result, even with the delay factored in. Botheration. :s All the same, am glad you have had a good day, @Iskra. :)
 
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james60059

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Hi, it’s an issue with RTT left Preston about 5L. Good tour in the end and I managed to do everything I had planned in Glasgow still even with the delay. Looking forward to the Ayrliner now :)

It was a very good tour, even the small delay at Acton Bridge didn't bother me. So much so I've booked the East Anglian now too 8-)
 

Iskra

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It was a very good tour, even the small delay at Acton Bridge didn't bother me. So much so I've booked the East Anglian now too 8-)
I was mainly bothered because Preston is one of the coldest stations on the universe, and there was an absence of information so I was half expecting the train to be cancelled at that point.

Excellent! LSL do seem to be building up quite a bit of repeat business now, so it bodes well for their future.

Did anyone book on their next tour, The Clansman?
 

47827

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I was mainly bothered because Preston is one of the coldest stations on the universe, and there was an absence of information so I was half expecting the train to be cancelled at that point.

Excellent! LSL do seem to be building up quite a bit of repeat business now, so it bodes well for their future.

Did anyone book on their next tour, The Clansman?

Said with bias it's the best one on the list, well north of Lanarkshire at least.
 

Iskra

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Said with bias it's the best one on the list, well north of Lanarkshire at least.
The traction and route is excellent. A pair of 47’s up the Highland Mainline would be phenomenal I’m sure. If it was a single day tour I would have done it, but the need to book a hotel in Inverness made the price more than I was prepared to pay, plus it would involve taking up an additional rest day too.
 

47827

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The traction and route is excellent. A pair of 47’s up the Highland Mainline would be phenomenal I’m sure. If it was a single day tour I would have done it, but the need to book a hotel in Inverness made the price more than I was prepared to pay, plus it would involve taking up an additional rest day too.

Had a few Riviera owned pairs up the Highland Mainline as well as 839/832 in multi to Aviemore ex Preston and some DRS multi pairs up there too. The rest were all single locos or top and tailed. They fly up the hills almost as swiftly as a hst and probably better than the LNER units in a pair. It's sad that it's only this one and Statesman trains that you can sample a run like that now. I'm lucky to have had 813 and 854 up there and on to Kyle last autumn and am hoping SRPS will have something that's not type 3s up there this year.

I've respect for 87s to do what they were built for but the combo of electric up the WCML and just a dear (albeit not terrible) first class option on top of the hotel and I couldn't quite bring myself to do what is the next IC offering.
 

Iskra

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Class 86 in IC livery confirmed as the locomotive for the electric leg of the Ayrliner, which I’m happy with :)
 

47827

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Class 86 in IC livery confirmed as the locomotive for the electric leg of the Ayrliner, which I’m happy with :)

Actually a kind of repeat of its first passenger working in preservation then way back in March 2007, albeit in reverse order to this tour and in BR blue that time. Although not sure whether the owner classes it as preserved and it certainly had a lengthy mainline return after that. That train was ECS Crewe to Carlisle and the 86 worked to Crewe and back. The train ran to the less exotic Welsh answer to Stranraer with Llandudno Junction, Bangor and Holyhead being the options via 47812 and 815 in multi (one of them should have been the last Freightliner 47/0 working ever and 47150's farewell railtour but it was stood down weeks earlier and subbed with an extra Riviera loco). The Sunday ECS was 47815 due to a fault on the 86. The train should have been 12 blue grey Mk3s launching the Cargo D set but it wasn't fit for traffic so 13 virgin livieried mk2s from Riviera covered. No class 20s though but the train was full (first class was £49 that day with standard class £29 making it one of the cheapest railtours that year).
 

_toommm_

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Class 86 in IC livery confirmed as the locomotive for the electric leg of the Ayrliner, which I’m happy with :)

This looks to be amazing - it’ll be probably my only tour of 2022 I’m booked onto, it’s a new line, and great traction and accommodation.
 

Kite159

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Booked onto the Ayrliner earlier this afternoon, been a few years since I've been towards Stranraer. And as an extra bonus managed to get accommodation in Crewe for £32 a night in a place I've used before.
 

_toommm_

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Booked onto the Ayrliner earlier this afternoon, been a few years since I've been towards Stranraer. And as an extra bonus managed to get accommodation in Crewe for £32 a night in a place I've used before.

If you don't mind, can you tell me where you're planning on staying? (feel free to DM me) I've had to book a guesthouse for £75 and I don't know whether it'll be the best place.
 

Iskra

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Actually a kind of repeat of its first passenger working in preservation then way back in March 2007, albeit in reverse order to this tour and in BR blue that time. Although not sure whether the owner classes it as preserved and it certainly had a lengthy mainline return after that. That train was ECS Crewe to Carlisle and the 86 worked to Crewe and back. The train ran to the less exotic Welsh answer to Stranraer with Llandudno Junction, Bangor and Holyhead being the options via 47812 and 815 in multi (one of them should have been the last Freightliner 47/0 working ever and 47150's farewell railtour but it was stood down weeks earlier and subbed with an extra Riviera loco). The Sunday ECS was 47815 due to a fault on the 86. The train should have been 12 blue grey Mk3s launching the Cargo D set but it wasn't fit for traffic so 13 virgin livieried mk2s from Riviera covered. No class 20s though but the train was full (first class was £49 that day with standard class £29 making it one of the cheapest railtours that year).
That sounds interesting! You have a good memory :D Those prices seem unreal!

There certainly seems quite a bit of interest in the Ayrliner, can certainly see it selling out. It is reported elsewhere that this tour will now use Mk3’s.
 
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Kite159

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That sounds interesting! You have a good memory :D Those prices seem unreal!

There certainly seems quite a bit of interest in the Ayrliner, can certainly see it selling out. It is reported elsewhere that this tour will now use Mk3’s.
Which I believe are the former Mk3 coaches used by Greater Anglia on the Norwich trains. I wonder what they have done to the interiors in terms of seats.
 

JonathanH

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Which I believe are the former Mk3 coaches used by Greater Anglia on the Norwich trains. I wonder what they have done to the interiors in terms of seats.
The interiors are largely unchanged from when they were with Greater Anglia, with some perspex screens.

https://inter-city.co.uk/the-train/

I think this slightly overstates the work done.

IMMACULATELY RESTORED CARRIAGES​

Our team of expert craftsmen worked tirelessly to refurbish our fleet of carriages inside and out. The train has been upgraded to the highest standards and liveried with the iconic Intercity brand. All our carriages have cushioned seating, panoramic windows, generously sized tables, and plenty of room for you to sit back, stretch your legs and admire the view from your window.
 
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Iskra

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Which I believe are the former Mk3 coaches used by Greater Anglia on the Norwich trains. I wonder what they have done to the interiors in terms of seats.
They are the same, but immaculate. And I do appreciate the provision of power from the sockets :)
 

47827

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That sounds interesting! You have a good memory :D Those prices seem unreal!

There certainly seems quite a bit of interest in the Ayrliner, can certainly see it selling out. It is reported elsewhere that this tour will now use Mk3’s.

Memory extremely hit and miss (and quite poor on useful information) but I still remember that one.

The prices were several years behind the times even back then. It was a one off as Cargo D and Victa Westlink were doing it "at cost" as a joint PR/promo exercise. The planned traction was simply to ensure swift sales plus gave rise the then first preserved AC locomotive in the UK on the mainline (on passenger). In any event the Freightliner 47/0 was stopped a few weeks early and repairs too costly to sanction and Cargo D stock not yet available. Nobody lost anything on it but Riviera (who provided the substitute set) and the catering chaps were the only ones to turn any real profit that day. Recall the fares were usually £15 to £20 more than that train in both classes (and still competitive). Even the local legend that was a very old chap from near Grange over Sands out of a care home was on the 86 ex Lancaster for a 3 hour sit on Holyhead platform in his wheelchair.

These Mk3 tours appear to be a novel idea in an otherwise increasingly dining oriented market with some thought to the fickle enthusiast market too albeit with only first class. Whilst I can't see myself ever having the inclination to touch anything in any of their programmes with a bargepole I'm sure it'll all do OK if the toys stay in the pram and no other factors ruin it all.
 

D6968

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Memory extremely hit and miss (and quite poor on useful information) but I still remember that one.

The prices were several years behind the times even back then. It was a one off as Cargo D and Victa Westlink were doing it "at cost" as a joint PR/promo exercise. The planned traction was simply to ensure swift sales plus gave rise the then first preserved AC locomotive in the UK on the mainline (on passenger). In any event the Freightliner 47/0 was stopped a few weeks early and repairs too costly to sanction and Cargo D stock not yet available. Nobody lost anything on it but Riviera (who provided the substitute set) and the catering chaps were the only ones to turn any real profit that day. Recall the fares were usually £15 to £20 more than that train in both classes (and still competitive). Even the local legend that was a very old chap from near Grange over Sands out of a care home was on the 86 ex Lancaster for a 3 hour sit on Holyhead platform in his wheelchair.

These Mk3 tours appear to be a novel idea in an otherwise increasingly dining oriented market with some thought to the fickle enthusiast market too albeit with only first class. Whilst I can't see myself ever having the inclination to touch anything in any of their programmes with a bargepole I'm sure it'll all do OK if the toys stay in the pram and no other factors ruin it all.
I don’t understand the use of a rake of air con Mk3’s for something that’s enthusiast marketed…
If I’m out for a tour with something like a 40 or a 20 I’d like to be able to open a toplight (not necessarily stick my head out and listen to what’s on the front)
Otherwise I may as well stick a pair of ear phones in and just listen to the soundtrack of one at work.
 

47827

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I don’t understand the use of a rake of air con Mk3’s for something that’s enthusiast marketed…
If I’m out for a tour with something like a 40 or a 20 I’d like to be able to open a toplight (not necessarily stick my head out and listen to what’s on the front)
Otherwise I may as well stick a pair of ear phones in and just listen to the soundtrack of one at work.

I would also personally take mk1s on something of any personal interest (given mk2 PV stock has mostly had the chop) or even more so if I were in the shoes of the party trying to fill a train of interest to enthusiasts, as it could then be the difference between filling the profit margin, BUT the whole IC thing is born out of trying to find sensible sideline uses for the purchase of that stock (given the electric only offerings are harder to sell so can't run as frequently) add to the fact it's owning company only has one incomplete Mk1 set in traffic bolstered with air cons.

The intention was always to limit the operating days of the "much older" mk1s each year too so was surprised to see anything much non steam using them and it fits with that statement that's its virtually barred from diesel enthusiast uses. Add to the above the non air con stock being harder to police with tightened behaviour rules necessary to enforce these days, even if the behaviour of 99% of passengers doesn't need heavy policing these days.

Eventually all vestibule windows on the mainline will likely remain permanently sealed shut with internal handles (as per some of the Pullman coaches knocking about) so the old nickname "coffin" will be more accurate on air con stock and when the equipment packs up you can forget being ventilated unless hopper windows can be funded.

It's a case of take it or leave it (and as the trains are likely to be of little interest to me looking at the programme style and how the whole thing is set up I can leave it easily without a moan or criticism towards the concept either way).

There are still several other (mostly) Mk1 sets knocking about catering for the acoustic sounds market, currently with a sudden 1990s style class 50 bias as they are the only diesel thing the well financed LSL "trainset" hasn't tried to take over YET. A proportion of stuff elsewhere using mk1s, when not steam, caters for the acoustic heritage diesel following. The Mk3s can still be thrown out by the like of LSL more for the less fussy (on that side) who want every "big" recreated or unusual/rare or "never been done" type working who then simply want the statistical or psychological pleasure of knowing they were on it and a few pics at either end.

You also get an overlap into the markets of folk who want such itineraries in sealed/modern comfort and aren't as keen on mk1s (many of whom can take partners or family members more easily then)... And finally the day tripper market who want first class non dining will also consider many of such trains helping replace those enthusiasts who only use/used Mk3s on service trains to get about years ago or if they needed to be on a one off rare working etc.
 
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Iskra

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I can't get too into the coaching stock debate, as I'm mainly there for the haulage, lines travelled, scenery and a day out. Noise is a bonus, but I find the debate fairly superfluous as unless you are in the first couple of carriages behind the locomotive you aren't going to hear anything anyway and wind noise takes over once you pick up speed. If you're all about the noise, surely that is catered for on preserved lines where you can lean out still if that's what you like? I'd never turn down a tour because of the coaching stock, but each to their own.
 

XAM2175

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I can't get too into the coaching stock debate, as I'm mainly there for the haulage, lines travelled, scenery and a day out.
Yes, I feel much the same way. I'm not fussed as long as it's reasonably comfortable and the rest of the package is interesting.

Of course, by that same measure, interesting coaching stock can lift the appeal of an otherwise-mundane haulage/route combination, but that happens less frequently.
 
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