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Locos and units you didnt like and still dont miss

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Clarence Yard

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Didn't mind the AM10's one bit. Still miss them for my daily journeys in and out of Euston.

But for sheer unreliability the cl.125 Rolls Royce units took some beating. There were no takers after we had finished with them at FP and they were quickly withdrawn.
 
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Ken H

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People are dissing the HST's. but remember, they were a huge step forward from what came before. in terms of speed, acceleration and braking, and passenger amenity. They said that without HST, there would have been no inter-city trains in UK.
Cl45 + Mk2A's anyone?
 

matchmaker

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Class 31. Ugly, grossly underpowered for their weight (especially when providing ETH on the 31/4s*), and not brilliantly reliable either.

*In a burst of comedy design, the first batch of 31/4s didn't have the ETH power available even if the ETH was switched off!

Especially if you compare them to the Class 37!
 

Revaulx

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Cl 304 EMU. or AM4 if you prefer.

They used to run one from Rugby to Manchester via Stafford and Stoke in the early morning, and I had to do that once a week for 2 months for work. bouncy bouncy bouncy.
Stopped every station. Except the ones between Stockport and Piccadilly as it fan on the fast lines.
My journey to school was initially on the Class 505 1500V DC Altrincham electrics, which were 40 years old and decidedly tatty. In 1971 the line was converted to 25kV and the AM4s that worked out of Piccadilly to Alderley Edge and Crewe started running through to Alty.

Compared to the DC units, their ride and acceleration was noticably worse. The first batch (304/1) with small windows and still one non-corridor compartment coach felt just as dingy as the units they had replaced, despite being half their age. So at the tender age of 13 I learned that newer didn't always mean better...
 

Ken H

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My journey to school was initially on the Class 505 1500V DC Altrincham electrics, which were 40 years old and decidedly tatty. In 1971 the line was converted to 25kV and the AM4s that worked out of Piccadilly to Alderley Edge and Crewe started running through to Alty.

Compared to the DC units, their ride and acceleration was noticably worse. The first batch (304/1) with small windows and still one non-corridor compartment coach felt just as dingy as the units they had replaced, despite being half their age. So at the tender age of 13 I learned that newer didn't always mean better...
I rode 308's on the Glossop line and also on Brum X-city and they seemed better units. Dunno if that was because they were refurbished by Network South East, or were better units. certainly didnt bounce like the 304's
 

yorksrob

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I rode 308's on the Glossop line and also on Brum X-city and they seemed better units. Dunno if that was because they were refurbished by Network South East, or were better units. certainly didnt bounce like the 304's

The 308's were very light and airey, although the off-white formica pannelling made the decor a little bland in their refurbished state.

Loved travelling on them when I first moved to Yorkshire though.
 

Grumpy Git

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Might have said it before on another thread, but the last train to Macc. from Piccadilly on either a Friday or Saturday was no fun on a 304 after a night on the beer?

If you didn't feel sick when you got on, you did before you passed Levenshulme.
 

alistairlees

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On a day like today I would welcome the ventilation (on all others I would wear a jumper).
I don’t wear a jumper on my feet / legs though. Nor does anyone I know, or who is in their right mind. The 171s were a massive step up for the ordinary passenger - the sort the railways actually rely on to pay the bills. They have air conditioning - no need for opening windows or draughts around feet. They probably improved accessibility quite a lot too. Thumpers are fun on heritage lines, which is where they belong.
 

Grumpy Git

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I don’t wear a jumper on my feet / legs though. Nor does anyone I know, or who is in their right mind.

You've obviously never used the 03:37 Lime St. to Manchester Airport on a January morning. If you aren't awake when you get on, you certainly are before you get to Edge Hill.

It's high-time those 153's (or whatever they are on that service now) were sent to the scrappy, it certainly wasn't a 195 last time I used it, (this year before the lock-down).
 

yorksrob

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I don’t wear a jumper on my feet / legs though. Nor does anyone I know, or who is in their right mind. The 171s were a massive step up for the ordinary passenger - the sort the railways actually rely on to pay the bills. They have air conditioning - no need for opening windows or draughts around feet. They probably improved accessibility quite a lot too. Thumpers are fun on heritage lines, which is where they belong.

True, I didn't wear a jumper on my feet or legs when I was using the thumpers for twenty odd years. Didn't feel the need.
 

Purple Orange

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People are dissing the HST's. but remember, they were a huge step forward from what came before. in terms of speed, acceleration and braking, and passenger amenity. They said that without HST, there would have been no inter-city trains in UK.
Cl45 + Mk2A's anyone?

Yes and that can’t be disputed. But just like a Boeing 707 revolutionised transatlantic air travel, they were made obsolete by the arrival of the Boeing 747, which in turn is becoming a thing of the past. HSTs, have overstayed their welcome on the intercity network. We have cleaner and more efficient trains these days, and it is regretful that the DfT and BR before it had not sought to get rid earlier.
 

DB

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Yes and that can’t be disputed. But just like a Boeing 707 revolutionised transatlantic air travel, they were made obsolete by the arrival of the Boeing 747, which in turn is becoming a thing of the past. HSTs, have overstayed their welcome on the intercity network. We have cleaner and more efficient trains these days, and it is regretful that the DfT and BR before it had not sought to get rid earlier.

Electric ones are cleaner, certainly. Diesels mostly aren't any better, or only marginally so (the HSTs had new engines not that long ago).

Unfortunately, the new trains are a big step down in terms of the passenger environment, compared to a decently refurbished Mk3 (or Mk4), and they don't ride as well.
 

Purple Orange

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Electric ones are cleaner, certainly. Diesels mostly aren't any better, or only marginally so (the HSTs had new engines not that long ago).

Unfortunately, the new trains are a big step down in terms of the passenger environment, compared to a decently refurbished Mk3 (or Mk4), and they don't ride as well.

That is purely subjective. I find them a far better experience in my humble opinion, to the point where I actually enjoy being on a train. But the carriages on a HST were less of an issue then the engines that pulled them along. Overlooking the fact that the carriages would tip sewage on to the tracks, if they had been replaced with an electric loco then I wouldn't have included these trains as one I was glad to see the back of.

To me the HST was a visual reminder of the government's failure to invest in the railways, where the GWML and MML should have been electrified decades ago, unnecessarily spewing out fumes, polluting our air. I also feel the same way about other diesel trains, but they have not yet been removed from the network. I'd have included Voyagers if they were taken away.
 

DB

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That is purely subjective. I find them a far better experience in my humble opinion, to the point where I actually enjoy being on a train. But the carriages on a HST were less of an issue then the engines that pulled them along. Overlooking the fact that the carriages would tip sewage on to the tracks, if they had been replaced with an electric loco then I wouldn't have included these trains as one I was glad to see the back of.

Fair enough, it is subjective (I think IEPs are absolutely awful, but everyone has their own opinion), but track-dump toilets don't mean the train has to be replaced - all the HSTs remaining in use now have retention tanks fitted.
 

Purple Orange

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Fair enough, it is subjective (I think IEPs are absolutely awful, but everyone has their own opinion), but track-dump toilets don't mean the train has to be replaced - all the HSTs remaining in use now have retention tanks fitted.

Let's say the HST fleet was still running on our mainlines today. If the carriages have all been completely refurbished to modern standards, toilet retention tanks added, doors that open by pressing a button AND the diesel engines were replaced with electric locos (bi-mode too if we're not going to see wires put up north of Edinburgh or south of Bristol), then it is practically a different train. It's like Trigger having the same road sweeping brush despite having 8 new handles and 6 new heads.

But the question of the thread is about trains you don't miss and are glad to see the back of. The HST fits that category for me, due to the fact for the vast majority of it's working life, it had a poor interior, no toilet retention tanks, doors you need to lean out of, a general dated decor and it still spews out diesel fumes. It was like that in the 90s and early 2000s and some of these issues had only been addressed in the last decade or even last few years. For those reasons, I do not miss the HST and I'm glad it has gone (well nearly gone).
 

DB

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Let's say the HST fleet was still running on our mainlines today. If the carriages have all been completely refurbished to modern standards, toilet retention tanks added, doors that open by pressing a button AND the diesel engines were replaced with electric locos (bi-mode too if we're not going to see wires put up north of Edinburgh or south of Bristol), then it is practically a different train. It's like Trigger having the same road sweeping brush despite having 8 new handles and 6 new heads.

A Mk3 is still a Mk3, even if it has new seats and retention tanks.

They are - fortunately - not nearly gone: 26 sets in Scotland, probably going to be 16 on GWR, 5 on XC - a bit short of half the original number of sets, although of course the remaining sets are mostly shorter.
 

yorksrob

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I miss the HST already from routes where it has gone.

IMO the interior on the unrefurbished ones is far more comfortable than those trains that replaced it. If that makes them "dated", then so be it.
 

kermit

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Slightly different emphasis from the original post, but if I'd been asked back in the mid-70s which locos would still be with us well into the 2010s, there would have been no way I would have predicted Classes 20, 37 and 73 to be successful. I would have assumed the 03 shunters (then very numerous, and useful with their short wheelbases), the all-conquering 47s (admittedly some survived a long time, but there were so many of them!), some sort of Type 2 especially in Scotland, the still-relatively-new 50s, and more examples of the 56s would evade the cutter's torch. The 20s seemed underpowered, in common with all the Type 1s, and had to be operated (inefficiently?) in multiple to get things moving, the 37s also seemed pedestrian, and the 73s were neither fish nor fowl.
 

D365

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Desiro City's and Aventras: They just seem extremely boring to me and we're never good in my opinion. The Desiro City's have Ironing board seat's, almost no passenger amenity, and the Aventras are just plain and boring. If we had some up to date versions of the Desiro's and the Electrostar's/Turbostar's (both using the same basic bodyshells) that would've been great. The Civity's and the A-train's we're good though.

You're in the historical section, those units are anything but historical.

Also: How do you come to the decision that "Desiro City", "star", "Civity", "A-train" and "seat" need apostrophes, but "Aventra" and bodyshell" don't?
 

Rob F

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People are dissing the HST's. but remember, they were a huge step forward from what came before. in terms of speed, acceleration and braking, and passenger amenity. They said that without HST, there would have been no inter-city trains in UK.
Cl45 + Mk2A's anyone?
Yes please!!
 

Irascible

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I miss the HST already from routes where it has gone.

IMO the interior on the unrefurbished ones is far more comfortable than those trains that replaced it. If that makes them "dated", then so be it.

I don't miss them ( well the FGW ones anyway ) precisely because post-refurbishment they never seemed a particularily nice way to travel ( not that I find the replacement is a subjective improvement ) - but with the original interiors, besides that slightly annoying armrest I was pretty happy. I'd call myself "interested" rather than an enthusiast, so it's not from nostalgia.

1st generation DMUs on long distance services are something I'd very much like to forget - all of them. I can put up with anything on a short journey but most of the way across Wales, as an example, just no.
 

WesternLancer

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I don't miss them ( well the FGW ones anyway ) precisely because post-refurbishment they never seemed a particularily nice way to travel ( not that I find the replacement is a subjective improvement ) - but with the original interiors, besides that slightly annoying armrest I was pretty happy. I'd call myself "interested" rather than an enthusiast, so it's not from nostalgia.

1st generation DMUs on long distance services are something I'd very much like to forget - all of them. I can put up with anything on a short journey but most of the way across Wales, as an example, just no.
I think that's a pretty balanced analysis - of both types mentioned!
 

Irascible

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I think that's a pretty balanced analysis - of both types mentioned!

Both of 'em had ups & downs - the DMUs had a good view but that was about it. HSTs when they first appeared had revoltingly stinky brakes & actually I sorta remember thinking the seats were a bit hard ( I was about 5 the first time, some allowances please! ) after aircon Mk2s with what felt like bucket seats but I'd imagine were more like collapsing seats. The automatic doors had a mind of their own, the squeaks you tended to tune out & there was an art form to walking down the train ( on the B&H, at least ) which I found pretty good training for the sailing I was doing as a youngster - generally practically running seemed to work best - and worst of all until we got some new sets on the Westcountry services, by the late 80s/early 90s the trains were heaving; even back then I had a couple of trips sitting across a doorway because there was literally nowhere else. But if you picked the right time of day you could curl up in all sorts of shapes on those seats & watch the world go by, & it was a pretty happy place to be. Plus I had a few trips eastbound somewhere west of Swindon that were roughly timed at over 140, and certainly felt like it...

As someone else said though, refurbs etc took any magic away & I'll not really miss them. I'll at least be happier on a local HST around here than a 1st gen DMU...
 

lxfe_mxtterz

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Southern Class 456s.

Absolutely horrible things to travel on. They were almost always incredibly filthy, looked like they hadn't been maintained in decades and I've had more bad experiences on them than I can count. One of the worst included having my seat cushion dangerously slide from its frame as I sat down.

Also never felt particularly safe travelling on them, particularly at night. I don't know whether it was the unpleasant ambience or what, but I always felt rather "at risk" and wanting the journey to end as quick as possible out of fear of being attacked...
 

bramling

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Southern Class 456s.

Absolutely horrible things to travel on. They were almost always incredibly filthy, looked like they hadn't been maintained in decades and I've had more bad experiences on them than I can count. One of the worst included having my seat cushion dangerously slide from its frame as I sat down.

Also never felt particularly safe travelling on them, particularly at night. I don't know whether it was the unpleasant ambience or what, but I always felt rather "at risk" and wanting the journey to end as quick as possible out of fear of being attacked...

Interesting on the latter point. No doubt some of the South London routes will have played a part in the case of 456s, however I always found the original 319 / 321 interior a little hostile.
 
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Ashley Hill

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I never cared for 47s (the damn things were everywhere,just like 66s today) and I still don't turn out to see them if ones in the area. As a spotter/basher in the 80s I avoided HSTs like the plague but once everything else had gone I started to go on them a bit more as in preference to sprinters or Voyagers. They were also great to work on as you still felt you were a proper guard rather than an optional extra like on an IET.
 

D1537

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Slightly different emphasis from the original post, but if I'd been asked back in the mid-70s which locos would still be with us well into the 2010s, there would have been no way I would have predicted Classes 20, 37 and 73 to be successful. I would have assumed the 03 shunters (then very numerous, and useful with their short wheelbases), the all-conquering 47s (admittedly some survived a long time, but there were so many of them!), some sort of Type 2 especially in Scotland, the still-relatively-new 50s, and more examples of the 56s would evade the cutter's torch. The 20s seemed underpowered, in common with all the Type 1s, and had to be operated (inefficiently?) in multiple to get things moving, the 37s also seemed pedestrian, and the 73s were neither fish nor fowl.

Yes, I'd have agreed on Class 20, but the others have some logic to them. Class 37 was a big class, pretty versatile with their axle-loading, and very reliable. Class 73 mixed a reasonably powerful mixed-traffic electric loco with the ability to go off the third rail as well. The Class 50s I suspect were unlikely to be long-lived as a non-standard class that were designed for trains that were rapidly moving to new traction.
 

Irascible

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Yes, I'd have agreed on Class 20, but the others have some logic to them. Class 37 was a big class, pretty versatile with their axle-loading, and very reliable. Class 73 mixed a reasonably powerful mixed-traffic electric loco with the ability to go off the third rail as well. The Class 50s I suspect were unlikely to be long-lived as a non-standard class that were designed for trains that were rapidly moving to new traction.

As a kid I used to groan when a 50 turned up when we were trying to get to Reading ( I think - spent a lot of time going from Exeter to somewhere near London but I can't seem to remember what for ) because the damn things kept breaking down; at least twice I've arrived at Paddington on a train with it's motive power in the middle of a formation after it pushed the preceding service a fair bit of the way from somewhere between there & Reading ( not far past Reading, one time ) - no-one was really happy with them, enthusiasts hated them because of what they replaced & the rather less enthusiastic just wanted to get somewhere without hassle. Have to admit it was generally an adventure for a kid though! once they got rebuilt they were fine & I preferred getting one+aircon Mk2s over HSTs for a while. They aren't missed on the WoE line, the current DMUs are possibly one of the best ways to travel other than lack of guards van - I stuck a motorbike on a WoE train when I moved to London, pretty sure there's no way you can do that now. Ready transport for when the thing broke down again!

On balance though, more positives than negatives. Dunno about short lived, there's a few doing useful things just like the others mentioned, aren't there? I know what you meant, but they still kept hanging about.
 

Mat17

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Class 47s, I always found them dull. Don't really like class 20s either.

From a unit point of view I'd have to say 153s (not exactly gone, but it's rare that I see them these days, never liked them, would love to see every single one scrapped). Also, Class 141 - I don't remember them at all and I know for a fact they were around in the 1990s and I probably travelled on them, clearly didn't make much of an impression though, so I don't miss them.
 

billio

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It took me some time to think about this. However, the worst train I travelled on was the electric multiple units on the Manchester to Bury line. The walk across Manchester to a truly deary Victoria station for a journey on a dilapidated, cold, empty train banging and crashing its way to Bury.
Mind you when the trams came they were not much better, especially if you sat at the front. There was so much lurching and rolling on the faster sections I was surprised the drivers could keep control of the tram.

Also I hated those Mk1 carriages that had wheel flats and hunting bogies. Sometimes a really awful journey.
 
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