London - Bletchley - South Acton

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falloutphil

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Hi,

I need to travel out of London to Bletchley and back to South Acton on a weekday evening.

I have a Zone 1-2 travelcard so getting to Euston will not cost me (or indeed to Z2 Boundary if these tickets are available), but I want to return via Harrow & Wealdstone and Wilesden Junction to South Acton (Z3), not via Euston.

Euston - Bletchley
Bletchley - South Acton

I've had a bit of a play around and you can get a return with NSE railcard from South Acton for £13.15 - much cheaper than singles. But this doesn't cover the whole of my outward leg.

But the outward South Acton ticket should cover me from Harrow & Wealdstone as this is a required change on that ticket. I'm assuming I am not covered from Willesden Junction, because although it is on the same line the Euston-Bletchley service does not stop there.

So can I just buy a single from Euston to Harrow & Wealdstone and be completely covered?

My concern is that whilst I know when using 2 tickets the train must stop at station where you change over tickets, I'm not sure what happens when you are using PART of the outward bound ticket (from Harrow onwards). The train will stop at Harrow of course - a valid change point on the outward bound ticket, but the fact that my second ticket will say "South Acton - Bletchley" rather than "Harrow & Wealdstone - Bletchley" - is that against the rules? Must I travel the full length of the ticket for it to be valid?

Any advice how to get this fare as cheaply as possible appreciated!


Thanks,

Phil
 
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hairyhandedfool

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If your Travelcard is a season ticket (seven days or longer) and none of your other tickets are season tickets or leisure passes then the train does not need to call where they change over (National Rail Conditions of Carriage, Condition 19).

If you do hold only one season, a return from South Acton to Bletchley will cover you from Willesden Junction (Zone 2), provided you use the season for part of the journey (Euston to Willesden Junction).
 

falloutphil

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Thanks!

I was unaware of condition 19 (c) - this is very useful to know.

So if I have Z1-2 season ticket (7+ days) this will get me to Willesden Junction. And even tho the train I am on does not stop at Willesden, my paper day return ticket (bought with NSE railcard) from South Acton to Bletchley will immediately cover me as the routing from SA to Bletchley is via Willesden, Harrow & Wealdstone and on to Bletchley via effectively the same tracks.

Great - you've just saved me the price of a single from Euston - thank you!
 

sonic2009

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I would say that this option would be cheaper :

Boundary Zone 2 to Bletchley Off Peak Day Return £9.00 (valid after 0915 and no restrictions within the evening peak). This will cover you for you journey to Bletchley and back.

And you will also need a Boundary Zone 2 to South Acton ticket Anytime Day Single £1.25 to allow you to get to your final destination.

The total cost for this journey is £10.25. All prices I have quoted above include your Network Railcard discount.

Hope this helps you.
 

LexyBoy

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Bear in mind that OP will be travelling on a weekday so the Network Railcard minimum fare will apply. With that in mind I'd think the best bet is the South Acton-Bletchley ticket. sonic2009's suggestion would be cheaper at weekends or if no railcard were held.
 

falloutphil

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Thanks again so with the zone 2 boundary ticket the price of the return will be floored at 13 on a weekday with a nse card, making it only a good deal when the cap does not apply at weekends?
 

RJ

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Thanks again so with the zone 2 boundary ticket the price of the return will be floored at 13 on a weekday with a nse card, making it only a good deal when the cap does not apply at weekends?

Correct. I also believe that on a weekday, your best option will be an Off Peak Day Return from South Acton to Bletchley, the one which costs £13.20 with a Network Railcard, for the same reason given by hairyhandedfool in post #2.

Can someone tell me why, between South Acton and Bletchley, there is an Any Permitted and Not Via London fare? Does not make any sense considering there is a Via London fare!
 

SickyNicky

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Can someone tell me why, between South Acton and Bletchley, there is an Any Permitted and Not Via London fare? Does not make any sense considering there is a Via London fare!

Off-Peak tickets for NOT VIA LONDON and ANY PERMITTED have different restriction codes (B4 and B2 respectively). ANY PERMITTED is priced by LM whereas NOT VIA LONDON is priced by SR. I would just use the cheapest option unless you need the slightly better B4 restrictions.

You couldn't use ANY PERMITTED via London because of the double back at Willesden Juction and the fares rule stopping you using Richmond as appropriate the routeing point.

+VIA LONDON is a bit strange. There doesn't seem to be any way to use this ticket because Richmond is, again, not an appropriate routeing point so you would double back at Willesden.
 

LexyBoy

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+VIA LONDON is a bit strange. There doesn't seem to be any way to use this ticket because Richmond is, again, not an appropriate routeing point so you would double back at Willesden.

If a route is specified on the ticket, then it is valid regardless of Permitted Routes. This is an interesting case though as there's not an obvious Via London route; I would think it's intended to be used via Euston.

FWIW, NRE gives the Any Permitted as valid via Euston anyway (though I can't see why).
 

SickyNicky

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If a route is specified on the ticket, then it is valid regardless of Permitted Routes. This is an interesting case though as there's not an obvious Via London route; I would think it's intended to be used via Euston.

Indeed, but it includes a cross London transfer which you don't need going through Euston. I presumed it was to go via Richmond and then London, but there's no permitted route from South Acton to London via Richmond either - only to London via Willesden.

FWIW, NRE gives the Any Permitted as valid via Euston anyway (though I can't see why).

It may be getting confused over easement 85. The electronic version of this easement looks for route 00000, which is ANY PERMITTED. It doesn't check for the + sign at all (actually there's no mechanism to do this at all within the easement data).
 

hairyhandedfool

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....+VIA LONDON is a bit strange. There doesn't seem to be any way to use this ticket because Richmond is, again, not an appropriate routeing point so you would double back at Willesden.

The Routeing Guide states that it may be necessary to consult the guide to find a route to the place named as the route on the ticket. It is my understanding that in this case it means that you would look up the routes to London and the routes from there, although it makes no mention of double-backs at that point.
 

SickyNicky

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The Routeing Guide states that it may be necessary to consult the guide to find a route to the place named as the route on the ticket. It is my understanding that in this case it means that you would look up the routes to London and the routes from there, although it makes no mention of double-backs at that point.

My point being that the only permitted route from South Acton to London is via Willesden. So why the cross London marker?
 
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