London Bridge Closure - Delay Repay

[Chrisgr31]

This evening I caught the 17.43 Charing X to Hayes train from Charing X. Planning to change at London Bridge to the 18.08 to Uckfield train. As we approach London Bridge there is an announcement we are not stopping due to a security alert. So get off at Ladywell and next train back to London Bridge. Get the delayed 18.16 to East Grinstead from London Bridge. Suspect it will miss the shuttle so I'll be catching the 19.08 from London Bridge when it gets to Oxted. Can I delay reclaim? From whom?

 

[A-driver]

Not sure about your question but if it is any help the closure was due to reports of a man with an axe threatening people. Armed police ordered the station evacuated. Obviously in the current climate after woolwich and with the m6 closed due to a suspicious car & the plane being diverted to standstead no chances are being taken with these kind if reports.

I believe they now think it to have been a hoax.

 

[Chrisgr31]

Thanks for the response. Now waiting at Oxted for a connection that's also late. All manner of excuses now. Electrical supply earlier, police on the line etc. Do appreciate they can't take risks with people's safety though.

 

[neilmc]

Ah, that'd be the ghost of Dr. Beeching then.

 

[island]

Yes you can claim delay-repay, from Southeastern probably.

 

[Chrisgr31]

Thought I would get my claim in early, however find that on the South Eastern online claim I can only claim for stations they go to.

As a result of them taking me to Ladywell instead of London Bridge I arrived at London Bridge at 18.24 instead of 17:50 so was 34 minutes late there.

My train to Crowborough out of London Bridge was the 18.08 which I missed and that would have got me to my station at 19:06. The next timetabled connection is either the 18:16 or 18:23 both of which in theory I would have missed, and they involve changes at Oxted and East Croydon and Oxted respectively. Had I caught either I would have got in at 19:39, instead of which I got in on the train which is timetabled in at 20:09.

Now in reality the Southern trains out of London Bridge were also in chaos, so whilst I didnt get back to London Bridge until 18:24 I actually caught the late running 18:16. However as it was late running I missed the connection at Oxted so got in on the train timetabled in at 20:09 albeit it was last so actually got in at 20:24.

So do I do a manual claim to South Eastern for the whole journey, or a claim to South Eastern for the London Charing Cross to London Bridge leg, and then a claim to Southern for the London Bridge to Crowborough bit?

 

[lemonic]

Make one claim to cover your entire journey from Charing Cross to Oxted. I think you should claim to Southeastern as you were on their trains when initially delayed.

 

[island]

Fill in a paper form and send it to Southeastern.

 

[34D]

Although, given it was a security alert (rather than a signal failure or train failure) you may wish to consider whether it is morally right to submit a claim at all.

 

[island]

The whole point of Delay-Repay is that you can claim irrespective of the cause of the problem. Although it will be interesting to know who the delay minutes get attributed to.

 

[A-driver]

Although, given it was a security alert (rather than a signal failure or train failure) you may wish to consider whether it is morally right to submit a claim at all.

Seriously? I can't see why it isn't...and its bit like the TOCs involved are going to be paying out of their own pockets-they will be claiming for the delays aswell off of NR.

 

[reb0118]

Although, given it was a security alert (rather than a signal failure or train failure) you may wish to consider whether it is morally right to submit a claim at all.

Seriously? I can't see why it isn't [because] it[']s [not] like the TOCs involved are going to be paying out of their own pockets. [T]hey will be claiming for the delays as well [from] NR.

And Network Rail claim from the public purse so we all end up paying. Yet again!

 

[jb]

There's no morality here. What there is is the questionable notion that someone, somewhere must pay as a result of stuff that's fairly and squarely in the realm of "s**t happens".

 

[A-driver]

And Network Rail claim from the public purse so we all end up paying. Yet again!

Thanks for correcting my grammar & spelling, most helpful...

 

[maniacmartin]

There's no morality here. What there is is the questionable notion that someone, somewhere must pay as a result of stuff that's fairly and squarely in the realm of "s**t happens".

This happens in all lines of business though. Stuff happens and businesses eat the cost. I used to work for a company that offered home delivery. During very heavy snow we couldn't deliver everything on time, so had to refund customers. That's just one of the costs of doing business.

 

[benk1342]

Right. Someone's got to bear the risk when "**** happens". The industry and its regulators have decided that Network Rail will bear these risks rather than individual customers. One way isn't more morally right than another.

 

[34D]

I draw your attention to NRCOC clause 42.

The railway company making a decision (to not stop at a station where someone may be weilding an axe, in order to protect the health & safety of passengers) is surely not something in their control?

I suppose if someone was receiving CPR from a member of TOC staff which caused them to miss a connection, then some on this forum would advocate claiming delay repay?

 

[island]

The recompense offered by Delay-Repay is over and above that guaranteed by the NRCoC, so what NRCoC 42 or anything else says on the matter is, with respect, irrelevant.

I believe (but am not certain) that it is a franchise requirement of some franchises to offer Delay-Repay.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

It's fascinating to learn that a Condition of the Contract to be conveyed by rail can become irrelevant while a non-contractural arrangement is on offer.

 

[island]

It's fascinating to learn that a Condition of the Contract to be conveyed by rail can become irrelevant while a non-contractural arrangement is on offer.

I'm not sure what that post is meant to mean, nor add to the thread, but my point is that 34D claims that Delay-Repay compensation is subject to the delay being inside the railway's control, whereas the Delay-Repay scheme specifically applies to all delays howsoever caused. The contents of the NRCoC are irrelevant to the operating of the Delay-Repay scheme; although as mentioned, Delay-Repay is non-contractual, I am not aware of a legitimate claim thereunder not being settled in the due course of time.

 

[Chrisgr31]

Although I have some sympathy for the notion that the incident was not in the control of the railway as a whole my total delay was over an hour. South Eastern offered the passengers concerned no support at all. The train merely passed through the station stopping at its next scheduled station. It could for example have stopped at New Cross so taking those who wished to get off at London Bridge less far out their way, their could have been announcements regarding alternative routes for people (although I appreciate as a driver only train this would be difficult), there could have been announcements at Ladywell Ithe trains first stop) advising whether London Bridge was open yet and how to get back, there could have been some useful informaton on the "Call here for information " phone which denied that London Bridge had ever been shut.

Then of course there is always the question as to whether they were too quick to close the station following the report.

Of course the reality is many people dont claim for occasions when they have valid claims (and indeed I have missed out myslef in the past) so on balance the TOC or taxpayer, or anyone else will not be out of pocket from my claim.

 

[A-driver]

I agree with that except one important point-southeastern didn't close the station, the police did and it was definately the right decision. I believe it turned out as a hoax but in the current climate had they kept the station open and someone had been killed then it would not only be unforgivable but it would make any delay rather trivial.

 

[benk1342]

I draw your attention to NRCOC clause 42.

The railway company making a decision (to not stop at a station where someone may be weilding an axe, in order to protect the health & safety of passengers) is surely not something in their control?

To the extent that applies (and it's not clear what it has to do with Delay Repay as others have pointed out), it raises a contractual issue, not a moral one.

 

[jb]

I agree with that except one important point-southeastern didn't close the station, the police did and it was definately the right decision. I believe it turned out as a hoax but in the current climate had they kept the station open and someone had been killed then it would not only be unforgivable but it would make any delay rather trivial.

Trivial for sure, but repayable nonetheless

 

[A-driver]

Trivial for sure, but repayable nonetheless

Absolutely. The reason you were delayed shouldn't come into question when claiming a refund. But you are better being delayed by a few hours than getting off a train into the path or armed police trying to stop a crazed axe wielding maniac and getting injured or worse.

 

[34D]

I'm not sure what that post is meant to mean, nor add to the thread, but my point is that 34D claims that Delay-Repay compensation is subject to the delay being inside the railway's control, whereas the Delay-Repay scheme specifically applies to all delays howsoever caused. The contents of the NRCoC are irrelevant to the operating of the Delay-Repay scheme; although as mentioned, Delay-Repay is non-contractual, I am not aware of a legitimate claim thereunder not being settled in the due course of time.

Erm, no.

I didn't make any such claim about delay repay.

I simply shared my own opinion on the morality (from my own perspective) of the action being proposed against the specific circumstances detailed.

Nothing more

 

[Chrisgr31]

I can report that I have received delay repay vouchers from South Eastern, slightly surprisingly for the same amount as the delays on Southern on the day of the Three Bridges fire, when I would swear blind the delays were longer!

 

[island]

Good to hear and thanks for coming back to let us know!