London Bridge - new timetable during reconstruction works commencing 5th January 2015

[Bald Rick]

As a Hayes line commuter, it was rather nice to come up to Victoria over the weekend - nicer, I suspect, than any journey next week will be. From a parochial perspective, I would like an extra 2tph to Victoria on top of our existing services - it would add more flexibility to central London travel, particularly as we are likely to find our off-peak links to CHX cut once the Programme is completed, limiting our access to the West End.

If I were you, I would aim for a CHX train, unless your destination is within 5 mins walk of London Bridge. The Cannon St trains will be very busy.

And you will retain CHX trains all day post 2018.

 

[Tangent]

If I were you, I would aim for a CHX train, unless your destination is within 5 mins walk of London Bridge. The Cannon St trains will be very busy.

And you will retain CHX trains all day post 2018.

As far as my own journeys to work are concerned, my office is two minutes' walk from Cannon Street, so I'll have no choice in the matter! An extra direct Victoria service would give me the option of changing in the peaks at Peckham for Blackfriars, if the need arose, and in accessing Thameslink services - I'm not looking forward to struggling onto the Northern when I want to use those. It would be slightly quicker to get to West London destinations and Heathrow. But it's more of an idle wish on my part.

 

[SF-02]

Perhaps pertinent to this thread, as an indication of how disruptive the London Bridge reconstruction is being:-
TfL have announced an extra ten buses to operate on each of the following services on Mon to Fri from tomorrow:-
21 London Bridge to Lewisham (p.m. peak only)
47 London Bridge to Lewisham
381 London Bridge to Waterloo (a.m and p.m. peaks only)

That's a total of 30 extra buses in the p.m. peak, 20 in the a.m.peak. There has already been strengthening of one or two bus routes connecting to the Greenwich line services, to enable residents of the area to get to the Jubilee Line at North Greenwich easier.

I wouldn't expect these changes to be the last by any means. Sounds like public transport in the area is going to be overwhelmed during peaks for the foreseeable future.

Buses are a very poor substitute for most of SE London. Even stations in zone 2 and 3 take an absolute age to reach central London. SE London's poor roads (in addition to little tube, poor rail etc) hamper alternatives.

Connecting from Charlton to North Greenwich tube is another lengthy, annoying change that no one will do unless absolutely no choice. Convincing many heading to central London to get off at Charlton, board a bus to the tube, the get off and descend to a packed Jubilee line is not something many will want to do. A lot of people who are not too aware of the area may not realise how remote North Greenwich is. It's not walkable from any SE station.

The return journey would be worse for southeastern passengers. Battling the crowds on the Jubilee from central London (with more people using it from southern) to get to N Greenwich, then the scrum getting on buses at North Greenwich to reach Charlton, then seeing a packed train arrive and hoping to board.

That's not even mentioning the huge number of new flats being built by North Greenwich station. Anyone down that way recently couldn't have missed it.

 

[Bald Rick]

As far as my own journeys to work are concerned, my office is two minutes' walk from Cannon Street, so I'll have no choice in the matter! An extra direct Victoria service would give me the option of changing in the peaks at Peckham for Blackfriars, if the need arose, and in accessing Thameslink services - I'm not looking forward to struggling onto the Northern when I want to use those. It would be slightly quicker to get to West London destinations and Heathrow. But it's more of an idle wish on my part.

CHX and tube back is an option if you are willing to trade 15-20 mins for more space.

And for TL, get the train to Waterloo E and either Jubilee to W Hampstead or 10 min walk to Blackfriars via Southwark tube (my preference).

Or depending how far down the Hayes line you are, you could do the Catford / Catford Bridge swap.

 

[Tangent]

CHX and tube back is an option if you are willing to trade 15-20 mins for more space.

And for TL, get the train to Waterloo E and either Jubilee to W Hampstead or 10 min walk to Blackfriars via Southwark tube (my preference).

Or depending how far down the Hayes line you are, you could do the Catford / Catford Bridge swap.

I'm not too far from the Catford Loop stations if needs be, although they are awkward to use.

Although I am relieved to see the morning rush hour passed off relatively smoothly.

 

[hassaanhc]

At least one 12-car Networker consist out this morning from Southeastern https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153144913298949&set=gm.821050657963933&type=1&permPage=1

Meanwhile, evening peak short formations:

17:15 London Victoria to Orpington due 17:56 Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 8. This is due to a train fault.
17:19 London Charing Cross to Strood due 18:34 This train will no longer call at New Eltham, Sidcup, Albany Park, Bexley and Crayford. Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 10. This is due to a train fault.
17:54 London Victoria to Rochester due 18:54 Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 8.
18:09 Orpington to London Victoria due 18:49 Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 8. This is due to a train fault.
19:00 London Victoria to Orpington due 19:39 Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 8. This is due to a train fault.

 

[jnjkerbin]

Can also confirm that the 0636 Charing X - Sevenoaks was formed of a trio of 465s.

 

[Busaholic]

Buses are a very poor substitute for most of SE London. Even stations in zone 2 and 3 take an absolute age to reach central London. SE London's poor roads (in addition to little tube, poor rail etc) hamper alternatives.

Connecting from Charlton to North Greenwich tube is another lengthy, annoying change that no one will do unless absolutely no choice. Convincing many heading to central London to get off at Charlton, board a bus to the tube, the get off and descend to a packed Jubilee line is not something many will want to do. A lot of people who are not too aware of the area may not realise how remote North Greenwich is. It's not walkable from any SE station.

The return journey would be worse for southeastern passengers. Battling the crowds on the Jubilee from central London (with more people using it from southern) to get to N Greenwich, then the scrum getting on buses at North Greenwich to reach Charlton, then seeing a packed train arrive and hoping to board.

That's not even mentioning the huge number of new flats being built by North Greenwich station. Anyone down that way recently couldn't have missed it.

I feel for you. The transport situation in S.E. London is chronic. All those cars trying to use the Blackwall Tunnel in preference to Creek Road or the Old Kent Road, been that way for nigh on sixty years and getting steadily worse by the year. Even the Jubilee Line extension was to justify the Dome and Canary Wharf developments, not for S.E. Londoners. The Bakerloo needs to be extended as a matter of urgency, but instead all London Underground's efforts are to be expended on the 'oligarch special' of a Northern Line bifurcation to Battersea.

The other mode of transport that could be effected reasonably quickly and cheaply would be a proper riverbus service. If this only moved a couple of thousand people a day from Woolwich, Charlton and Greenwich to London Bridge, Waterloo and Charing Cross (or nearest piers to them) it would have a noticeable effect on some of those rush hour trains, for a while at least. Instead we get ski-lifts from nowhere to nowhere.

 

[FOH]

... I am relieved to see the morning rush hour passed off relatively smoothly.

My train was OK today and was only 8 minutes late arriving at London Bridge. I understand however that a number of fast line services got terminated at Norwood Junction and New Cross Gate "due to congestion at London Bridge".

 

[Bishopstone]

My train was OK today and was only 8 minutes late arriving at London Bridge. I understand however that a number of fast line services got terminated at Norwood Junction and New Cross Gate "due to congestion at London Bridge".

Likewise my Coastway train arrived about 8 late. I gather one or two Metro services were turned at South Bermondsey, in-bound.

Tonight's 18.23 was 13 late leaving, and will miss my Lewes connection for the sixth time out of six, this year.

 

[LBSCR Times]

Likewise my Coastway train arrived about 8 late. I gather one or two Metro services were turned at South Bermondsey, in-bound.

Tonight's 18.23 was 13 late leaving, and will miss my Lewes connection for the sixth time out of six, this year.

In the same way as the 18.12 London Bridge to Littlehampton was 'only' 15' late start, which isn't bad going for this service, though I think your 18.23 is usually late slightly more often....
At least that one isn't run fast!
Southern do have a regular habit of running late running London to Littlehampton services fast from Hove to Worthing and then fast again to Littlehampton, often departing Hove behind the all stations!

 

[neilm]

Yes I can live with this as long as there is a train in the platform going south.

 

[sarahj]

I feel for you. The transport situation in S.E. London is chronic. All those cars trying to use the Blackwall Tunnel in preference to Creek Road or the Old Kent Road, been that way for nigh on sixty years and getting steadily worse by the year. Even the Jubilee Line extension was to justify the Dome and Canary Wharf developments, not for S.E. Londoners. The Bakerloo needs to be extended as a matter of urgency, but instead all London Underground's efforts are to be expended on the 'oligarch special' of a Northern Line bifurcation to Battersea.



Well know one in S London wanted the M23 extension or the South London Ringway Box, so nah nah nah nah.

http://www.cbrd.co.uk/articles/ringways/map/

 

[Bishopstone]

At least that one isn't run fast!
Southern do have a regular habit of running late running London to Littlehampton services fast from Hove to Worthing and then fast again to Littlehampton, often departing Hove behind the all stations!

That is true.

I think one of the reasons the 18.23 is never run fast, is that the PA system on the 442s is so quiet most of the Cooksbridge/Plumpton mob would never hear the order to disembark at Haywards Heath.

 

[sarahj]

That is true.

I think one of the reasons the 18.23 is never run fast, is that the PA system on the 442s is so quiet most of the Cooksbridge/Plumpton mob would never hear the order to disembark at Haywards Heath.

I don't think Southern would dare miss out those two on the Eastbourne 442. If we did, I Don't think the lock on the sliding door to the guard area is that strong.

 

[southern442]

This is all quite odd. One of the biggest reconstruction works in the country, and one of the most crowded routes in the country, and they expect to run a near normal amount of service with half the capacity? Almost every day there has been congestion at LBG causing delays - are we expected to put up with this every day for the next 3 years? Surely this is a case of not thinking things through well enough?

 

[infobleep]

Perhaps pertinent to this thread, as an indication of how disruptive the London Bridge reconstruction is being:-
TfL have announced an extra ten buses to operate on each of the following services on Mon to Fri from tomorrow:-
21 London Bridge to Lewisham (p.m. peak only)
47 London Bridge to Lewisham
381 London Bridge to Waterloo (a.m and p.m. peaks only)

That's a total of 30 extra buses in the p.m. peak, 20 in the a.m.peak. There has already been strengthening of one or two bus routes connecting to the Greenwich line services, to enable residents of the area to get to the Jubilee Line at North Greenwich easier.

I wouldn't expect these changes to be the last by any means. Sounds like public transport in the area is going to be overwhelmed during peaks for the foreseeable future.

I wonder how many of these extra buses will run on Tuesday? (tomorrow)?

 

[FOH]

A couple of observations from this evening. Caught the 2022 which eventually left at 2030 due to late arrival of the driver. The boards showed On Time right up until they cleared at 2021. No announcements were made either on the platform nor by the driver when he arrived. The train continued to lose time and was 12 down by Forest Hill.

Since I've yet to be on a near on time train since Christmas either all staff have become rude or (more likely in my opinion) some kind of gagging order has been issued on announcements as I cannot recall a single on board manual announcement in 2015.

I do think London Bridge could've pre-emted the departure times as with no driver present at 2021 there was no way it was leaving on time.

 

[Bald Rick]

This is all quite odd. One of the biggest reconstruction works in the country, and one of the most crowded routes in the country, and they expect to run a near normal amount of service with half the capacity? Almost every day there has been congestion at LBG causing delays - are we expected to put up with this every day for the next 3 years? Surely this is a case of not thinking things through well enough?

Half the capacity?

 

[Abpj17]

The other mode of transport that could be effected reasonably quickly and cheaply would be a proper riverbus service.

I just wanted to say that I love the riverboat service although only seem to use it between North Greenwich and Bankside when going to the O2. Aside from canal cities like Amsterdam and Venice, the Thames still feels more active/part of the city than other capitals I've visited in Europe.

 

[Bishopstone]

Southern now telling various people on Twitter of a 'long term plan' to be announced on Friday. So, what do we think?

Current West Croydon cancellations made permanent?

Other services cancelled instead?

A more substantial timetable re-draft? (Unlikely on practical grounds, I suspect?)

Tonight, it seemed to hang together okay until about 18.00, and then those 15 minute late starts re-emerged. I gather a Littlehampton train was routed via Crystal Palace or Norbury - not sure which.

My 18.23 was a very average 14 late leaving, since extended to 24. It will miss not just the booked Seaford but also the hourly Martianlink connection at Lewes.

 

[southern442]

Half the capacity?

Maybe I overestimated the platform closures, but you should still understand what I'm getting at.

 

[Bald Rick]

In other news, Southeastern have just had their best performing morning peak and evening peak for months. On the second day of a major timetable change. With a bus strike. Did someone do something right?

 

[neilm]

In other news, Southeastern have just had their best performing morning peak and evening peak for months. On the second day of a major timetable change. With a bus strike. Did someone do something right?

Sorry daily mail is not interested

 

[Bishopstone]

In other news, Southeastern have just had their best performing morning peak and evening peak for months. On the second day of a major timetable change. With a bus strike. Did someone do something right?

Cease calling at London Bridge and it all runs smoothly?

Is it too late to cancel the builders engaged to re-construct the place?

 

[greatkingrat]

It's not that surprising.

Last week there was 29tph arriving at Charing Cross 0800-0859, this week there is 25tph. Plus trains now have one less stop, with no change in running times which will allow them to pick up a minute or two.

 

[Bald Rick]

It's not that surprising.

Last week there was 29tph arriving at Charing Cross 0800-0859, this week there is 25tph. Plus trains now have one less stop, with no change in running times which will allow them to pick up a minute or two.

I'm sorry, but I'm now going to be annoyed.

Whenever 'the railway' screws up, it gets lambasted from all angles. Last week London Bridge was on the front page of the Standard, ultimately because of a relatively simple error in the placement of information screens. And now some people I know very well are off to be grilled by the rail minister and lots of MPs as a result.

But the attitude when something that is 3 years in the planning goes exactly to plan appears to be "it's not surprising", implying that it is all rather easy, and that nothing less than perfection is expected.

I cannot tell you how hard thousands of people have worked over the last weeks, months and years to get this week right. The timetable that started yesterday is the result of 2 years hard graft by a small group of planners who have written, checked, and rewritten it several times; and a much larger group of people planning, risk assessing and briefing every last detail of the operation for the last 6 months. Every single day over Christmas / New Year, over 1000 people worked on the project to rebuild London Bridge. Every single day since it reopened, the station management team have been working all possible hours - much of it unpaid - to keep the station open and moving. (And been subject to a ceaseless tirade of abuse from passengers, but that's another story). Those of us closely involved have been watching events unfold, particularly last Monday, with deep concern where things have not gone to plan. Personally, I did a 75 hour week last week and haven't slept properly, or had any time with my kids, this year.


So it would be nice, occasionally, that when something goes right, that the message back is not:

"well what do you expect, it wasn't hard was it", but,

"well done for being ambitious and succeeding"

 

[Busaholic]

I wonder how many of these extra buses will run on Tuesday? (tomorrow)?

A big round number.

 

[Bishopstone]

I'm sorry, but I'm now going to be annoyed.

Thanks for saying that: I'm glad you did.

Between whining commuters like me and I'm sure a few in staff grade on the railway who always feel they could run a better show than 'management', it must have been a patience-sapping few weeks.

I hope you're through the worst of it soon, and get to spend more time with the family.

I'm not a big user of the South Eastern side, but I'm pleased to hear it's bedded-in quickly, and of course without any positive headlines. I'm sorry for the flippancy of my most recent comment here.

 

[Bald Rick]

I'm sorry for the flippancy of my most recent comment here.

Flippancy I like, I have a Masters in the subject - combined honours with sarcasm and schoolboy humour

And I must say that the boys and girls on the front line have been absolutely brilliant in difficult circumstances.