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London Bridge - new timetable during reconstruction works commencing 5th January 2015

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sarahj

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Nope, spoke to a few today, drivers do not know approach control, but would like to know which ones are as such.
 
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gtr driver

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The 1659 London Bridge to Horsham left virtually on time yesterday, but ground to a halt at the 'advance starters'. We sat there for a few minutes with the conductor telling us we were waiting for a red signal to clear (thanks!), then crawled a few metres forward and stopped again. This was repeated once more, and then, after another few minutes, the driver sounded a long blast on the horn and crawled forward again (past the signal), after which we stopped very suddenly again. After a further couple of minutes we set off as normal. The delay meant I missed my hourly train to Betchworth from Redhill which the staff there sent off despite seeing us dashing along the platform to catch it.

Was this an instance of the driver stopping too short of the signal, and, if so, why is this an issue at these spots?

No this means a signalling fault which means it can't be cleared so the driver is given permission to pass it at danger. After doing so the train must proceed at caution in case something is obscuring the section ahead until the next signal is reached. Blasting the horn is no longer a rule book requirement but was until recently and I suspect most drivers prefer to do so as it warns P Way staff of your presence and other drivers that what you are doing is legit.
 

redbutton

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No this means a signalling fault which means it can't be cleared so the driver is given permission to pass it at danger. After doing so the train must proceed at caution in case something is obscuring the section ahead until the next signal is reached. Blasting the horn is no longer a rule book requirement but was until recently and I suspect most drivers prefer to do so as it warns P Way staff of your presence and other drivers that what you are doing is legit.

And the sudden stop right under the signal was because the TPWS override button only works for 20 seconds and can only be activated at a stand, so you have to draw right up to the signal then stop and press the button before you can pass the signal.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Nope, spoke to a few today, drivers do not know approach control, but would like to know which ones are as such.

The drivers you spoke to must not be very observant then. If (as the driver) you watch closely, you can figure out which signals have it. You can see where the track circuits are in the 4-foot (the "spiders"). If a red signal protecting a low-speed junction clears almost every time at the exact same spot (when you occupy the track circuit indicated by the spider), that's your approach control.

The danger is that drivers use that knowledge to justify excessive speed approaching the red signal believing that it'll clear before they get there.
 

Yabbadabba

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The drivers you spoke to must not be very observant then. If (as the driver) you watch closely, you can figure out which signals have it. You can see where the track circuits are in the 4-foot (the "spiders"). If a red signal protecting a low-speed junction clears almost every time at the exact same spot (when you occupy the track circuit indicated by the spider), that's your approach control.

The danger is that drivers use that knowledge to justify excessive speed approaching the red signal believing that it'll clear before they get there.

That works well until they replace the track circuit for an axle counter section but your also wise to point out that drivers need to be aware that the signal might not change up every time they approach it.

At the ASC where i work we love it when qualified drivers (not the ones still in driver training school on a jolly day outting from the classroom) come up to study shunt routes or see how an approach control signal work from our prospective amongst other things, as it promotes a greater understanding across the grades.
 

Deepgreen

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No this means a signalling fault which means it can't be cleared so the driver is given permission to pass it at danger. After doing so the train must proceed at caution in case something is obscuring the section ahead until the next signal is reached. Blasting the horn is no longer a rule book requirement but was until recently and I suspect most drivers prefer to do so as it warns P Way staff of your presence and other drivers that what you are doing is legit.

I understand the part about passing a signal at danger; it was the two instances of drawing up slightly closer to the signal before finally passing it that threw me, and prompted me to enquire whether it was an instance of a driver inadvertently failing to draw up close enough to certain signals, a problem which has been mentioned elsewhere on this forum recently.
 

Bald Rick

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I understand the part about passing a signal at danger; it was the two instances of drawing up slightly closer to the signal before finally passing it that threw me, and prompted me to enquire whether it was an instance of a driver inadvertently failing to draw up close enough to certain signals, a problem which has been mentioned elsewhere on this forum recently.

I may have mentioned before that you really manage to catch some bad luck (I presume you were on 2B30 when it's doors failed yesterday), but this one takes the biscuit.

It wasn't a signal failure. I won't post the detail here, however it was an extremely unusual turn of events, which resulted in an even more unusual solution, which you then experienced first hand. It hasn't happened before. And won't happen again.
 

Deepgreen

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I may have mentioned before that you really manage to catch some bad luck (I presume you were on 2B30 when it's doors failed yesterday), but this one takes the biscuit.

It wasn't a signal failure. I won't post the detail here, however it was an extremely unusual turn of events, which resulted in an even more unusual solution, which you then experienced first hand. It hasn't happened before. And won't happen again.

Mysterious! Any chance you could send me a private message with brief details? I'm just curious to know the background. Many thanks again for your information stream! BTW, unusually, I caught the preceding Victoria train from Redhill yesterday, so I'm not always unlucky!
 

redbutton

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I may have mentioned before that you really manage to catch some bad luck (I presume you were on 2B30 when it's doors failed yesterday), but this one takes the biscuit.

It wasn't a signal failure. I won't post the detail here, however it was an extremely unusual turn of events, which resulted in an even more unusual solution, which you then experienced first hand. It hasn't happened before. And won't happen again.

Ooo, interesting...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
That works well until they replace the track circuit for an axle counter section but your also wise to point out that drivers need to be aware that the signal might not change up every time they approach it.

I don't sign any axle counter areas, but in training I learned that the sections are delineated by small yellow lineside boxes, so presumably the same logic would apply. Only, the last wheel would trigger it instead of the first.

At the ASC where i work we love it when qualified drivers (not the ones still in driver training school on a jolly day outting from the classroom) come up to study shunt routes or see how an approach control signal work from our prospective amongst other things, as it promotes a greater understanding across the grades.

I've been to Three Bridges for a visit; it was enlightening even though I was a trainee at the time. I think all drivers should visit a big signalling centre at least once, if only to see how much the modern signaller actually has to juggle at any given time. My little train is a tiny blip on a very big panel.
 

FOH

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Carnage right now. Doesn't look like anything is running. Pink army have mostly melted away.
 

ScotGG

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I don't blame them really. Would get hounded and info limited.

What is rubbish is being stuck on a train without air con or cooling. Not having them on 376s or networkers is laughable.
 

tsr

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Can't speak for the pink people, but tonight's extensive delays at LBG & surroundings were due to a trespasser on the track near LBG. Unfortunately a SE driver had to do a GSM-R red button emergency call which led to such a huge stoppage of services that the whole of SE London eventually was affected in some way or another. My personal longest delay was 8mins but I was extremely fortunate - some were many many times that!
 

sarahj

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Can't speak for the pink people, but tonight's extensive delays at LBG & surroundings were due to a trespasser on the track near LBG. Unfortunately a SE driver had to do a GSM-R red button emergency call which led to such a huge stoppage of services that the whole of SE London eventually was affected in some way or another. My personal longest delay was 8mins but I was extremely fortunate - some were many many times that!

Yes. I was working the 16.57 to Littlehampton and it was 20 late in due to signal issues between Caterham/Tat corner and Purley and 10 mins leaving, but we must have just got away in time. The email system must have crashed as I got one message just after East Croydon about it, and then nothing till almost Littlehampton as a SMS. When we got down to Hove we were then stuck behind a stopper and we were 15 late into Littlehampton, where I had to get off one train, jump on a 313 and ding the bell for a stopper back to Brighton, 4 late, plus then another 2 waiting at Littlehampton/Arundel junction.
 

James Wake

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Yes. I was working the 16.57 to Littlehampton and it was 20 late in due to signal issues between Caterham/Tat corner and Purley and 10 mins leaving, but we must have just got away in time. The email system must have crashed as I got one message just after East Croydon about it, and then nothing till almost Littlehampton as a SMS. When we got down to Hove we were then stuck behind a stopper and we were 15 late into Littlehampton, where I had to get off one train, jump on a 313 and ding the bell for a stopper back to Brighton, 4 late, plus then another 2 waiting at Littlehampton/Arundel junction.

Were you also crewing the 2116 Bognor/Eastbourne last night, not sure if I have ever been on a train crewed by you, but my regular trains are Barnham crews.
 

sarahj

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Were you also crewing the 2116 Bognor/Eastbourne last night, not sure if I have ever been on a train crewed by you, but my regular trains are Barnham crews.

No, I was done last night by 8.

You may have spotted me around, I'm difficult to miss.;) Sometimes punters, when I'm out checking tickets say 'hello', or 'hi there' and I do wonder if they are forum members.
 

Deepgreen

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No, I was done last night by 8.

You may have spotted me around, I'm difficult to miss.;) Sometimes punters, when I'm out checking tickets say 'hello', or 'hi there' and I do wonder if they are forum members.

Forgive my ignorance but why are you difficult to miss - sounds slightly mysterious!?
 

FOH

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It was good that at the height of the issues last night the station staff didn't resort to kettleing the passengers by closing barriers. It seemed much more relaxed than in the Jan/Feb/Mar chaos. I thought the announcements were atrocious though, mostly it was silence and then automated CCTV announcements. When the odd human one was done it was by a chap with a thick Indian? accent and was difficult to hear, plus all he said was an 'operating incident'. Finally, the usual guy took over and it was much clearer but by that point the situation was improving anyway.
 

BzRail

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It was good that at the height of the issues last night the station staff didn't resort to kettleing the passengers by closing barriers. It seemed much more relaxed than in the Jan/Feb/Mar chaos. I thought the announcements were atrocious though, mostly it was silence and then automated CCTV announcements. When the odd human one was done it was by a chap with a thick Indian? accent and was difficult to hear, plus all he said was an 'operating incident'. Finally, the usual guy took over and it was much clearer but by that point the situation was improving anyway.

I got there about 17:30 (must have just happened, no hint of a problem when I left work). I agree the lack of kettling was a nice relief, I always thought it was unnecessary, and actually made the situation worse for everyone.

The few P.A. announcements I found impossible to discern with all the background noise, this is something that needs to be sorted. Couldn't get any Internet service on my mobile due to congestion (3G).

Arrived home about half an hour late, changing at E. Croydon.
 

physics34

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It was good that at the height of the issues last night the station staff didn't resort to kettleing the passengers by closing barriers. It seemed much more relaxed than in the Jan/Feb/Mar chaos. I thought the announcements were atrocious though, mostly it was silence and then automated CCTV announcements. When the odd human one was done it was by a chap with a thick Indian? accent and was difficult to hear, plus all he said was an 'operating incident'. Finally, the usual guy took over and it was much clearer but by that point the situation was improving anyway.

the announcer you are talking about is pretty dire and always has been.
 

Deepgreen

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2B30 RT at London Bridge today! Incidentally, does anyone know why the Southern side cable troughing has seemingly been left for the last several months with a large number of incomplete sections? I can understand the lack of lids while work proceeds, but not to finish the basic installation seems odd.
 

ScotGG

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Loads of delays on the southeastern side tonight. Same this morning. It seems delays are creeping up on the southeastern side recently.
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Southeastern side looks to be a mess tonight again unless they can fix things in the next hour. A broken down train at Hither Green I think. It's been stuck for over an hour.

Once again the lack of stock will be making things worse tonight.
 

FOH

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Southern too, 1836 cancelled and no service had an additional NXG stop added
 

Yabbadabba

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Southern too, 1836 cancelled and no service had an additional NXG stop added

I would imagine that was becase a 2J87 London Bridge to West Croydon (via Norbury) had to come out of service at Thornton Hreath with a defective speedometer and thus its back working 1G56 West Croydon to London Bridge (via Forest Hill) was also cancelled leaving no stock at London Bridge.
 
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Bald Rick

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Loads of delays on the southeastern side tonight. Same this morning. It seems delays are creeping up on the southeastern side recently.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Southeastern side looks to be a mess tonight again unless they can fix things in the next hour. A broken down train at Hither Green I think. It's been stuck for over an hour.

Once again the lack of stock will be making things worse tonight.

Broken down train just outside London Bridge, on the Charing cross lines. Took well over an hour to move. There's been a spate of them this week, including a failed freight at Lewisham, and another freight that had a coupling break near
Dartford.
 
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