London Bridge reconstruction works

[ComUtoR]

In the evening peak the position of the escalators should help with spreading passengers evenly on the train - passengers at Charing Cross and Cannon Street will still board at the back but then passengers at London Bridge will board towards the middle.

Passengers tend to board according to where they alight. Passengers for Grove Park, Petts wood etc will board at the back. The effect is lessened for terminal stations as you get more of a spread.

Hopefully in due course, morning passengers will work out that they don't need to be at the front if they're alighting at London Bridge.

They will eventually start crowding where the escalators are so rather than spread loading through a train it will cause crowding at the alighting points.

If there is anything I have learned from watching passengers get on and off it is that stations need multiple exits from the platforms.

Unless SE had metro trains with SDO

Networkers have a versions of SDO

 

[jopsuk]

Unless SE had metro trains with SDO of course to use 4-6?

London Bridge to Lewisham stretch completely closed from 11:15 to 12:00. What's being fixed?

This week has been a disaster really for SE Metro and the new station.

SDO is not very useful at a terminus- an over-length train in one platform would block other platforms

 

[JamesRowden]

SDO is not very useful at a terminus- an over-length train in one platform would block other platforms

12-car trains use the shorter platforms at Charing Cross every peak without producing the effect that you refer to.

 

[MrB]

12-car trains use the shorter platforms at Charing Cross every peak without producing the effect that you refer to.

Yep mine used P6 this morning.

This is just a feature of Charing Cross. The west side platforms (1-3) have long been 12 car and were the only ones able to take the 12-CEP etc that ran Kent Coast trains from electrification. The east side platforms (4-6) are JUST 10-car, the country ends out onto Hungerford Bridge are notably narrow. The quite small station concourse is mostly the area in front of 4-6 and could not be eaten into by platform extension, it's bad enough at present during any disruption. It's a real quart into a pint pot, and also why half of the trains there can be no more than 10 car.

If P4-6 are 10 car length why do the 12-car class 375s open all doors apart from those in the rear coach?

 

[carriageline]

Yep mine used P6 this morning.







If P4-6 are 10 car length why do the 12-car class 375s open all doors apart from those in the rear coach?

4-5-6 are all 10 car for NETWORKERS only. They are all technically, 12 car platforms for 375/376s but only the front 11 will release. Primarily (I believe) this is due to how the platform tapers at the end.

Out of interest, where abouts does the rear car sit for it to need SDO?


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[ComUtoR]

Out of interest, where abouts does the rear car sit for it to need SDO?

On a 12-Car the last coach is off the platform.

 

[30907]

This is just a feature of Charing Cross. The west side platforms (1-3) have long been 12 car and were the only ones able to take the 12-CEP etc that ran Kent Coast trains from electrification. The east side platforms (4-6) are JUST 10-car, the country ends out onto Hungerford Bridge are notably narrow.

Just to clarify, the 12-car platforms are 4-6 (and barely long enough even for 12CEP), 1-3 are the 10-car ones.

 

[MrB]

4-5-6 are all 10 car for NETWORKERS only. They are all technically, 12 car platforms for 375/376s but only the front 11 will release. Primarily (I believe) this is due to how the platform tapers at the end.

Out of interest, where abouts does the rear car sit for it to need SDO?


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Thanks.

 

[ijmad]

Slightly off topic question, but can anyone explain why the new Charing Cross platforms are arranged up-up-down-down at London Bridge (or will be, eventually...) only to switch to up-down-up-down by the time they arrive at Waterloo East? Surely services crossing in front of each other like this is a bit of a bottleneck? I appreciate there are only two lines between the stations for most of the way, but in that case, why isn't Waterloo East up-up-down-down?

 

[swt_passenger]

Slightly off topic question, but can anyone explain why the new Charing Cross platforms are arranged up-up-down-down at London Bridge (or will be, eventually...) only to switch to up-down-up-down by the time they arrive at Waterloo East? Surely services crossing in front of each other like this is a bit of a bottleneck? I appreciate there are only two lines between the stations for most of the way, but in that case, why isn't Waterloo East up-up-down-down?

If you stayed u/u/d/d through Waterloo East, then you need far more conflicting moves between Waterloo East and Charing Cross. It is more efficient to functionally divide the six track terminus into two three platform halves, and you can apparently run more trains overall.

 

[sarahj]

My first visit today, and so far I have noticed that Network Rail has built a big new station section that just is not used as yet. About 90% of the punters from my mid afternoon Horsham service went out the old way, and why not. It's stairs down to the new concourse. Fun and games trying to access the mess room which is full of signs printed on A4 sheets. classy. Came for my train, the 16.57 to Lit, and noticed loadings seemed to be. Old way 75%, up from the basement, 25%. Lots of staff manning the lower barriers with not much to do. Until the tube station accesses into the lower concourse, I'm not sure it's point TBH.

 

[swt_passenger]

... Until the tube station accesses into the lower concourse, I'm not sure it's point TBH.

It's quite useful for getting to platforms 7-9 from the street I think...

 

[MikeWh]

If you stayed u/u/d/d through Waterloo East, then you need far more conflicting moves between Waterloo East and Charing Cross. It is more efficient to functionally divide the six track terminus into two three platform halves, and you can apparently run more trains overall.

Plus there's no benefit to u/u/d/d at Waterloo East as down trains would still occupy different platforms whereas at London Bridge it will be the same island platform.

I guess you could potentially run u/d/d/u but then the CX1-3 ups would have to cross all the downs rather than just the current CX4-6 downs. No point really.

 

[MrB]

Does anyone know why dispatch on the SE platforms is so slow? Is this just because of new staff or is there another reason?

 

[carriageline]

It's something we have noticed and raised internally. Some trains seem to lose a couple of minutes at London Bridge.


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[MrB]

It's something we have noticed and raised internally. Some trains seem to lose a couple of minutes at London Bridge.


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Ok great, this is what I had noticed too!

 

[kentman]

My peak Cannon Street journey was quite pleasant on Friday. There was even some vacant middle seats all the way, and in the first car. It was on time as well.

Looking at boards at Cannon St on the way home, all the Metro's seem to be 8 car in the new timetable. Hopefully it was not just a quiet Friday!

 

[Ironside]

I was in the area today so went for a nose around the main hall. I was impressed with the quality and size of it, although the serounding area is still a building site, as you might expect with all the work still to do.

 

[theageofthetra]

Worth pointing out that the toilets are free to use on the new concourse.

 

[neilm]

Worth pointing out that the toilets are free to use on the new concourse.

Indeed, also I think the toilets now open were opened before in the vaults for a short period of time and then they had the previous one in the vaults opened, am I right? Remember the gents been on the right and then one day they became on the left.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

They will eventually start crowding where the escalators are so rather than spread loading through a train it will cause crowding at the alighting points.

But that'll still be more spread out than the previous situation: Partly because there would be two, not one, common alighting points at London Bridge, and partly because it will no longer coincide with the alighting point that most passengers will prefer at Cannon Street/Charing Cross/Waterloo East.

If there is anything I have learned from watching passengers get on and off it is that stations need multiple exits from the platforms.

Totally agree with you there. And multiple entrances. It'll both spread crowds out and be much more convenient for passengers if they can enter/exit the station at a location that corresponds to the direction they need to walk from/to.

 

[Class377/5]

I had to use the station today due to engineering works meaning Tube from Vic was a no go. Going from the station to Tube wasn't sign posted at all from the barriers onwards. Only because I spotted the Underground sign after leaving the station (and roughly knowing the layout) I managed to find the route.

Coming back quite frankly is awful. They'd shut the arcade by the Tube entrance and signs pointed to outside. Once outside in the rain (where at a normal pace I went flying because of the slippy floor) I had no idea where to go. From 20 or so people who were standing around I wasn't the only one. I guessed you needed to go up the escalator to reach the Southern platforms but again no a single sign from coming out the Tube entrance the whole way is very bad.

I expected much more direction especially as the bits with no signs had zero staff in sight all the time.

 

[lookingforit35]

Here's a pic taken on an afternoon last week, just before the peak period. The narrowness of the platform is pretty evident. As mentioned in my previous post, I really wouldn't feel comfortable with people trying to pass behind me in a hurry at a busy time.

 

[physics34]

My first visit today, and so far I have noticed that Network Rail has built a big new station section that just is not used as yet. About 90% of the punters from my mid afternoon Horsham service went out the old way, and why not. It's stairs down to the new concourse. Fun and games trying to access the mess room which is full of signs printed on A4 sheets. classy. Came for my train, the 16.57 to Lit, and noticed loadings seemed to be. Old way 75%, up from the basement, 25%. Lots of staff manning the lower barriers with not much to do. Until the tube station accesses into the lower concourse, I'm not sure it's point TBH.

Alot of people walk out of the front and across London Bridge to their offices (or to get a bus). When the other side entrance is opened on Tooley Street I can see people using this route more.

 

[neilm]

Alot of people walk out of the front and across London Bridge to their offices (or to get a bus). When the other side entrance is opened on Tooley Street I can see people using this route more.

Doubt it as you will have to cross tooley Street, where as the old way has the bridge over.

 

[ijmad]

Here's a pic taken on an afternoon last week, just before the peak period. The narrowness of the platform is pretty evident. As mentioned in my previous post, I really wouldn't feel comfortable with people trying to pass behind me in a hurry at a busy time.

Something that seems obvious to me is that the voids for the stairs and escalators are just huge.

Why do they need to extend along the platform for the entire horizontal length of the escalators? Surely all you really need is about 10 feet to get passengers heads under the level of the platform and then you could close it off and have more platform above their heads for other passengers to wait on for the rest of the length.

It is true the narrow area isn't quite as narrow as on the old platforms, but the amount of platform that is narrow is far, far higher in the new design! I can only think it's been done this way to get more natural light in to the lower concourse.

Maybe something they could rework later (although expensive and embarrassing...) if it really is a problem.

 

[JamesRowden]

Here's a pic taken on an afternoon last week, just before the peak period. The narrowness of the platform is pretty evident. As mentioned in my previous post, I really wouldn't feel comfortable with people trying to pass behind me in a hurry at a busy time.

Stand at the back of the platfrom and let people get off the train then.

 

[lookingforit35]

Stand at the back of the platfrom and let people get off the train then.

Glib to say the least. Then again perhaps you've never tried to use London Bridge station when it's busy.

 

[JamesRowden]

Glib to say the least. Then again perhaps you've never tried to use London Bridge station when it's busy.

A month ago I caught a train from Platform 2 towards Hastings during the afternoon peak at London Bridge.

I always let people get off the train first before I head across the platform because I value everyone's journey time above myself getting a seat instead of someone else.

On the occasion stated I found a seat near the front of the train after walking through about 5 carriages.

 

[lookingforit35]

A month ago I caught a train from Platform 2 towards Hastings during the afternoon peak at London Bridge.

I always let people get off the train first before I head across the platform because I value everyone's journey time above myself getting a seat instead of someone else.

On the occasion stated I found a seat near the front of the train after walking through about 5 carriages.

I salute your approach sir (although I cannot agree that every standing at the back of the platform is either workable or remotely practical - and this particular problem didn't exist a month ago as the new platforms were yet to be opened).

But let's not fall out - the point I was trying to highlight was not about our respective commutes, but about the farcically narrow platforms which wont accommodate the numbers of passengers they should do. I think it will lead to safety issues.