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London bus destination indicators

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TheNewNo2

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It struck me the other day that pretty much every bus in London, even the most recent ones, still use destination blinds. By comparison in Nottingham, Bristol or Cambridge, every bus uses LED displays, and has done for years.

Why is London so far behind the times with this?
 
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Be3G

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Issues surrounding legibility and longevity/durability I believe. Having said that, last year a bus with LED blinds was being trialled on some London routes and the clarity was excellent, so maybe we'll be heading that way eventually.
 

Tetchytyke

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TfL standards state that a traditional roller blind must be used.

The rule came about about 10 years ago, apparently because it was felt that digital displays were not clear enough, as well as issues with longevity. But with technology developing as quickly as it has, I can see that changing. Lothian Buses had the same rules for the same reason but their new buses all have white LED blinds now.
 
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jon0844

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Seeing some buses outside of London it's easy to see why London is actually streets ahead. LED blinds are the future, but only when they're reliable enough and have a suitable resolution.

Just saw a bus with a flip dot display that must be from the 80s and so badly illuminated I struggled to see it even when it was stopped, and loads of buses have amber/yellow LED boards that have faded ridiculously. Far quicker than they should have done, but a reflection of early LED tech (like early light bulbs where individual diodes failed completely due to poor electronics/heat).
 

cf111

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The orange displays Stagecoach seem to use everywhere are very clear.
 

jon0844

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The orange displays Stagecoach seem to use everywhere are very clear.
New displays should be more like the new rail screens and able to last ages and not fade (noticeably) until years after the bus would have been scrapped anyway.
 

edwin_m

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Interestingly the trams in Croydon have LED displays, as do Underground and Overground trains, so it must be someone in TfL bus department who insists on blinds not TfL as a whole. The Bombardier trams were supplied with roller blinds but these have been replaced since.
 

SpacePhoenix

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There can't be that many companies that use blinds, every company this way uses orange LEDs. Once blinds start to fade it becomes hard to see them from a distance
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Was it not Leon Daniels and his team that specified blinds?

The old flipdot displays aren't brilliant but not had any issues with the newer LED screens and, in respect of the reliability of blinds, we've all experienced buses with blinds set to "white blank" as it's either u/s or the destination isn't on the blind.
 

PeterC

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At least with dot matrix it wasn't too difficult for Carousel to correct the spelling on the displays that said "Chesham Grammer School"
 

Goldfish62

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TfL standards state that a traditional roller blind must be used.

The actual specification is for motorised blinds (manual winding blinds are not allowed) with LED backlighting, which makes for very clear illumination at night.
 

SpacePhoenix

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The actual specification is for motorised blinds (manual winding blinds are not allowed) with LED backlighting, which makes for very clear illumination at night.

The buses this way before they had LED blinds used to have number blinds at the back that were motorised, it didn't take them long to break, they were then just set of black and never used again
 

Antman

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It struck me the other day that pretty much every bus in London, even the most recent ones, still use destination blinds. By comparison in Nottingham, Bristol or Cambridge, every bus uses LED displays, and has done for years.

Why is London so far behind the times with this?

Just sheer bloody mindedness on the part of TfL, the not invented here syndrome!
 

Busaholic

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London buses, especially double-deckers, included many via points on their blinds until fairly recently. A traditional printed blind was considered far more practical for ease of reading these: now that the front blinds of buses only contain destination information, I suspect the changeover will occur in the not-too-distant future, perhaps soon after Leon Daniels's retirement.
 

Be3G

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That's a good point about the via, erm, points, although even though these mostly no longer feature there're still some routes with small text used on blinds owing to the need to be very specific about the destination. For example, the 313s show ‘Ponders End, Mollison Avenue’ with frustrating regularity (seeing as it's not the end of the route), and that's a bit of a squeeze on a single-deck blind.
 

LexyBoy

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LED displays in the 90's and 00's were pretty terrible, I remember many a nearly-missed bus as I squinted to work out what the bus hurtling down the road was - too much glare at night, and not enough contrast in the sun.

Much better now due to better LED technology and more resolution so text is clearer.
 

Busaholic

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That's a good point about the via, erm, points, although even though these mostly no longer feature there're still some routes with small text used on blinds owing to the need to be very specific about the destination. For example, the 313s show ‘Ponders End, Mollison Avenue’ with frustrating regularity (seeing as it's not the end of the route), and that's a bit of a squeeze on a single-deck blind.

The buses used until recently on the 417 route had a separate destination blind under the via blind and showed Clapham Common Old Town as the destination, except on one occasion it was Clapham Common Station, one stop before the Old Town terminus, and I queried it with the driver, who said there was a bus one minute behind going the 'whole' route but he'd been cut back to make up time! The buses now used, without the via points, just show Clapham Common.
 

johntea

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One thing I like about London Buses is the visual and audio displays on route that actually inform you of the upcoming stops! Here in Yorkshire apart from a select few services it is pure guesswork as soon as you get going on the bus unless going to a terminus!

I remember Arriva back in the day used to have small TV screens on board some of their services ironically showing episodes of...On The Buses :D not that you could hear any audio!
 

SpacePhoenix

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One thing I like about London Buses is the visual and audio displays on route that actually inform you of the upcoming stops! Here in Yorkshire apart from a select few services it is pure guesswork as soon as you get going on the bus unless going to a terminus!

I remember Arriva back in the day used to have small TV screens on board some of their services ironically showing episodes of...On The Buses :D not that you could hear any audio!

Years ago the buses here had a small LED dot matrix display that showed (well was supposed to show) the next stop but it was very hit and miss as to whether it worked
 

matt_world2004

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One thing I like about London Buses is the visual and audio displays on route that actually inform you of the upcoming stops! Here in Yorkshire apart from a select few services it is pure guesswork as soon as you get going on the bus unless going to a terminus!

I remember Arriva back in the day used to have small TV screens on board some of their services ironically showing episodes of...On The Buses :D not that you could hear any audio!

Some of the abellio Surrey buses have TVs with a tube line like diagram showing you exactly where you are on the route and the next stop
 
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